Manchester United banter 78344

 

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22 Feb 2018 11:46:34
I’ve always been a fan of Jose but my patience is wearing thin now. Every time the players take the field they look like strangers. No connection, chemistry or partnerships across the pitch. Jose has been an incredible manager over the last 15 years with his trophy haul but his tactics are out dated now. All the top teams press and bust a gut when they lose the ball. We sit deep and invite pressure onto us. We rely on a our defence when in reality that is the weakest area of our team. Jose does not have the players in his great Chelsea team of 04/ 05. He is relying on two converted wingers and smalling and jones. We are so lucky we have De Gea and it got to the point last night where I felt sorry for him. I said to my mate De Gea deserves to be winning champions leagues and league titles. Without him the last 5 years I shudder to think where we would be.

This is not a bad squad. In fact the attacking talent is the strongest it has been for while. We have Sanchez, Lukaku, martial, rashford, mata, pogba, Lingard. There is no excuse for Jose about not getting that attack firing on all cylinders and blowing away sides. It pains me to say but Pochettino, pep and even Klopp would be tearing teams apart with our attack. We rely on individual pieces of magic to win games and when we don’t get that we look clueless and univentive.

I previously used to be one who would be happy to sacrifice style for trophies. And to an extent I still believe that. But when we are playing like this and getting bored to tears every game, it takes all the joy out of the game that we all love. I used to be so excited and wouldn’t miss a united game if possible. Now when we lose or play poorly I don even get angry anymore. We have been very spoiled as united fans and what sir alex did will never be replicated. But is been entertained and excited off my seat too much to ask for? I don’t think so at all. We deserve to be entertained and the way That Jose is going about it is unacceptable to the traditions of united. Ed25 mentioned further down that he expects united to always be one that doesn’t sacrifice our traditions for short term success and I totally agree. Jose has improved us but this far down the line we are still lack cohesive, identity and passion. That is inexcusable.

Moving forward, we have to win on Sunday against Chelsea and I think we will get through against Sevilla. I fear for our top 4 chances but I think we will sneak it. I don’t advocate sacking another manager but I feel we need a young, forward thinking manager who demands attacking football and is in touch with modern football. We’ve tried to managers with experience and who have been round the block a few times. But we need to be more daring and move with the times. We look a club and team that are stuck in the past.

Agree11 Disagree2

22 Feb 2018 12:01:40
Park, last night around 78 minutes I had that feeling like I needed a crap.

So I went to the loo, ten years ago that would never have happened. I would have waited until the match finished then gone.

It says something when having a jobbie is more entertaining than watching your side play football.

22 Feb 2018 12:31:05
I was mostly disappointed by how cheaply they gave the ball away and couldn’t retain possession.

Also think Matic looks knackered so we effectively have no substance in midfield. Might change with Jorginho Weigl, who knows.

22 Feb 2018 12:42:03
I totally agree and have a post on the others page stating similar points. We should not be made to watch that sort of football and it needs to be addressed quickly. Many fans paid to travel to Spain and watch that. I feel very sorry for them.

22 Feb 2018 12:47:42
I’m exactly the same Shappy. My stream went down and normally I rush to get it working again. But I was not too bothered. It’s sad because watching united play with the old man used to be a highlight of my busy week. But now it’s such a chore.

Wallace - that would be a much needed addition either Jorginho or Weigl. But we also need two quality full backs. And I highly doubt Jose will suddenly start playing the attacking football we crave. I fear he is not the man to get us playing the way we should. But he has been integral in clearing up the debacle of lvg and Moyes. But it’s got a feeling of him laying the foundations and the next manager really getting the squad firing and playing the way that we should be. It’s a case of the next manager reaping the rewards of what Jose has sowed.

22 Feb 2018 13:46:16
It's always caused debate on here results or attractive football . I've no idea why it's seen as one or the other, look around Europe's top leagues including our own, teams playing attractive football are doing just fine and will take most of the major prizes.

22 Feb 2018 13:56:33
I don't really have a problem with being well organised and disciplined in fact it's impossible to win the Champions League if your not!

I've watched Utd a lot this season and from what I've seen we have a number of fundamental problems. Whilst Smalling is an adequate defender he's very poor on the ball. We can get away with this most weeks but against the good teams it becomes very hard to find any kind of fluency or rhythm when your central defender can't pass the ball forward with any accuracy. This becomes even worse when he gets pressed and he can become a liability. To be fair Jose has been without his first choice central defender for a large part of the season. Rojo and Jones have both had their injury problems and Lindelof just doesn't look the part to me.

In attack we're heavily reliant on Lukaku holding the ball up which he is unable to do with any kind of consistency. Due to his strength and size we probably all see him as target man which in truth is not really his game. I see Lukaku as a box player. He doesn't have great movement but in the box he is able to hold off defenders with his strength. He can pin them, turn quickly and shoot. We wouldn't expect Hernandez to hold the ball up with any degree of success so why should we expect Lukaku to be a link man just because he's big and strong. His movement is poor, his first touch questionable and he just doesn't give us any platform to play. Our tactics are dependant on Lukaku holding up the ball and bringing others into the game, he is unable to do this on any consistent basis and this is simply not his strength anyway. If he gets balls into the box he'll score goals but we shouldn't expect much more in all honestly. He occasionally uses his strength and power to link the play and when he does we look a different team but in reality he doesn't do this very often and hardly ever against the very best teams when we need it most.

I think Jose has made similar mistakes with Pogba. Due to his size and strength he expects him to fulfil a role in the side which just isn't his game.

Results are generally ok but Jose has an atrocious record in the big games. This is when you really see the deficiencies in Smalling being unable to play out from the back, Pogba being used as a defensive midfielder, vacating midfield and not tracking runners and Lukaku's inconsistent hold up play. Against the very best we get found out because we have two many players performing roles that just doesn't suit them. When all these aspects are fundamental to how we want to play then it's no surprise we've struggled in the big games. Unless Jose has a radical re think I think we'll continue to struggle in the biggest games.

I don't think it's so much that Jose's tactics have become outdated rather than he doesn't really have the players to do the job he wants at the very highest level. I find this strange because Jose himself has signed most of them. Maybe they've been mis scouted or unable to adapt to how he wants to play but I honestly believe that unless something changes in how we set up then we'll continue to struggle under Jose in the biggest games.

22 Feb 2018 14:05:07
The SAS have a motto, "who dares wins". The point of which is you have to try if you want to succeed.

You also have the saying "fortune favours the brave".

Yet there are no sayings about how if your cautious and don't have a go and put yourself out there then you'll get all the glory.

Yes we will lose games if we try and be more adventurous, but we lose games with this current approach.

The point is the teams that really go for it win more than they lose. If we were top of the league well ahead of everyone else then I could see a reason for the pragmatic approach, but we're not, we are second by a long way and slipping. If we want to take the next step we need to be brave and have a go.

22 Feb 2018 14:37:28
Few die hard fans above . Goalless draw and don't want to watch United.

22 Feb 2018 14:58:33
Last season 20odd points off the pace and a bit dull but jm puts 2 trophies in the cabinet and says judge me on that . I'm not a big fan of his but it's a strong arguement to his detractors . The problem though is if you end up a mile behind in the league, win nothing and are often pretty terrible to watch then Jose's arguement evaporates about our style and why we play that way . Let's see the season out and he will either win something and again say the end justifies the means and point at a trophy or leave fans scratching our heads at our approach.

22 Feb 2018 15:10:42
Get off your high horse jred. Not everything you say is gospel.

22 Feb 2018 15:13:46
Slate pretty good post that.

22 Feb 2018 15:23:33
Jred - I think everybody's just a touch frustrated pal. I think everybody looks at the players in our squad and they can't understand why we struggle so much to play some decent football. I'm not sure Jose's tactics are outdated I just think some important players in our team can't fulfil the role he wants. If for example we switched Costa for Lukaku and Kante for Pogba I think we'd see a different team. The way we play the CF must be able to hold the ball and occupy the CB's and the two holding midfielders must be disciplined and protect the back 4. Lukaku can't hold onto the ball and Pogba vacates the midfield. We're second in the league because this problem only really manifests itself against the best teams. This is when it becomes vitally important for Lukaku to hold the ball and Pogba to be more disciplined. Jose wants to play 4-2-3-1 but he can't trust Pogba, Lukaku can't hold the ball, the wide forwards don't really want to defend and our CB's aren't renowned for their ability on the ball.

For things to change in the big games especially I think Lukaku needs a partner, Pogba needs some defensive cover and we need defenders that are comfortable on the ball.

With everybody fit we could easily play a back 3 of Lindelof, Bailly and Rojo, wingbacks of Valencia and Young, Matic, and Pogba in midfield with Sanchez at 10, Martial and Lukaku up top. The extra CB could give insurance for Pogba, Lukaku has a partner and Sanchez more of a feee role to get around the pitch and influence the game. I think Jose just needs to get a bit more creative and start to find a few solutions to the obvious problems we have against the best teams. I think the players are there but can Jose adapt and get the best out of them remains to be seen. The team just doesn't look balanced to me. We play 4-2-3-1, Pogba's not disciplined, Lukaku can't hold the ball, the wide forwards play too deep. We play 4-3-3, Pogba becomes more influential but Lukaku still can't hold the ball and the wide forwards still play too deep. I think reverting to a back 3 would solve the majority of these problems.

Anyway I've said enough and what do I know roll on Sunday.

22 Feb 2018 15:26:13
Good post Danny can’t argue with that.

22 Feb 2018 15:29:05
Fair point Slate I wish I'd just said that instead of my endless rabble!

22 Feb 2018 17:17:15
Danny mate i'm the oppisite to that. I look at this squad and wonder how jose still has us 2nd in the league and still in 2 cups.
40 to 50% of the 22 or so players should not be at Manchester United. i'm pretty sure 6 or 7 will be gone in the summer.
Outside of pogba ( who currently doesn't justify this tag) sanchez ddg how many top class players to we have?
On top of that the other better players we have matic mata lukaku and bailly have not been playing too well or not at all.
Darmian blind smalling fellaini young valencia herrera rojo make imo very little positive contribution.
Shaw has produced about 12 really good games in 4 seasons.
Martial lindelof and rashford flatter to device they have talent but are still very inconsistent but have time on their side but they are no world beaters yet. They all deserve another season to make more impact.
Its a squad severly lacking winners winning know how and good depth.
You say we have a good squad i think we only have about 14 players worth keeping.
Good squad? No league challenge for 5 years. Some are here all 5. Some are here 4 or 3 or 2 seasons. Why do you think we have a good squad?
Poor squads can win cups but rarely challenge for a league title.
Manchester united have been a cup team for 5 years. There is absoloutly no evidence to suggest otherwise.
You can argue we spent a lot of money but we have a poor squad no doubt about that in my mind.

22 Feb 2018 17:38:48
Nearly every one, can see it's a talented squad .
Most can see we are not really playing to our potential.
And yet we are still up there ahead of everyone bar city and still In the FA and CL.
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out what would happen if we could find that extra 10 %, from the likes of pogba lukaku martial Sanchez etc .

Ken
Poor squad? You argued all summer this was the worse United squad in 22 year . Lol
You can't even compare it to 4 seasons ago we have bought over 20 players since then .
It's ridiculous
But why stop there go back 5 seasons and everything is great it a title winning team .

22 Feb 2018 17:54:53
It's like saying at the start of the season the city squad is poor because they haven't won the title since 2014?
City have a very good squad it's one of the reasons there top? The other being there playing very well

Yes United have not won the title since the year before city 2013 but at the start of the season the fact that united last won the title in 2013 and city 2014 doesn't mean squat.
Best 2 squads in the league.

22 Feb 2018 17:57:14
Jred no i didnt.
I said jose took over our worst performing squad for 22 years. That is fact.
He took over a squad that had finished 6th 4th 5th the previous 3 seasons have we had a squad that has finished worse than that in 22 years in the league?
Try to answer in one word yes or no.

22 Feb 2018 17:59:13
More double standards from litlle angry man. down below your comparing to 10 years ago at least i'm only going back 5. lol double double standards. Little denis wise😀😀😀🙈🙈.

22 Feb 2018 18:23:46
8 Jul 2017
"Strong starting 11 but one of the worst united squads for 22 years imo. After first 15 16 played the rest are well below the standard required. I have high hopes for tuanzsbe and periera"
At least stand by you argument pal.

22 Feb 2018 18:26:03
It's a team, people. If the defence isn't working properly (which it isn't mostly) then the midfield won't work properly. If the midfield isn't working (which, regardless of the defence, is also not) then the attack can't function well. The midfield mess that was left by never having a succession plan for either Scholes or Carrick, and panic buy recruitment by a succession of managers, has left us with a dysfunctional midfield that's not working together and is horribly understaffed. We are lucky McTominay has come through this season.

22 Feb 2018 18:16:10
Ken
First off yes you didn't you went on about it being the worse squad .
Secondly
And read this slowly I am not comparing this squad to 10 years ago .
I pointed out that 10 years ago Ronald and co (A very different squad ) won the champions league and that they didn't blow every team away like people seem to think .

22 Feb 2018 18:36:48
United last won the CL in 2008 Ronaldo Rooney and co . What an attacking team that was .  

We played 13 games in the CL that year.  
Drew 4 
And scored more than 1 goal in only 4 games.

Ken
Surely you can see see that's not comparing this current team to one 10 year ago?
There is no mention of the current team and if you read the full thread you will see it's about people beliving we just blew teams away under fergy with Ronald and co .
Which if you read even further down was a discussion on the page ;)

22 Feb 2018 18:43:31
It is one of the worst squads little fella it says so above it is one one the worst squads. But don't take 3 lines out of context. Answer the question.
Did jose take over our worst performing squad for 22 years after tbe 3 previous leage campaigns. Remember 6th 4th 5th. Have we had a squad that's done worse tban that in 3 consecutive leage campaigns in the previous 22 years. Just answer yes or no. Its not difficult even for you.

22 Feb 2018 19:22:00
Ken
Jose took over a squad that had just won the fa cup many years we have won nothing .
2003/ 4/ 5 we never won the title then won 3 on the belt
May 2017 09:42:41
I had a debate with jred and noucamp on here who both think we have a great squad in fact a better squad than both Chelsea and spurs. I feel that while entitled to their opinion gnat they are totally deluded. This is probably the poorest squad I've seen at untied for 25 year . Ken

There's a few more.

22 Feb 2018 22:11:59
Yep its a poor squad and it will continue to be that until we get rid of the the poor players. But we will see what happens.

22 Feb 2018 22:35:35
Changed your tune very quickly .
All the personal stuff as well dear me. Little man etc lol.
I'm not angry Ken told u the other day it's all funny . The above change in tune about sums it up lol
But worse squad in 25 year that up there with James won nothing and your a scout for Boca .

23 Feb 2018 04:45:56
History is the only thing carrying us currently.







 

 

 
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