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13 Feb 2018 11:31:47
Around 10 years ago we played in 3 cl finals in 4 years.

But stalworths like rio and vidic have been replaced by jones and smalling.

Scholes and carrick by fellaini and herrera.

Neville . / rafael / evra by the likes of young and valencia and shaw.

Ronaldo tevez rooney by martial lukaku and mata.

Anyone still unsure we have a great squad?

Standards have been dropping for years guys.

Agree9 Disagree9

13 Feb 2018 13:35:04
Ken,

Whilst some of the players you mention have been replaced by players now deemed not up to the standard of the previous ones some of it has not been for the want of trying. Some of the players mentioned are young and have massive potential - Martial for example. Ronaldo when he left was the Ballon D'or but when he signed was a talented but promising teen the same way that Shaw and Martial are.

I fully agree that the current team is not to the same standard as the one from 2007-2009, but at that point we were one of the best teams in Europe with one of the games all time greatest managers. Its a standard the club should aspire to reach again, but the club is showing the signs of trying to get there. Bar Tevez, from the players you mention above all were given the time to grow into the Club and become great players whether promoted from the youth system or bought in.

Modern day football is blighted by short termism. Yes we are behind City at the moment and the football being played is at best good but inconsistent and at worst disinteresting, but knee jerk reactions and chopping and changing everything might not prove any better.

13 Feb 2018 13:44:53
That's just stupid.

Rio and Vidic have been replaced by Bailey and Lindihop (one excellent defender and one with a lot to prove)

Scholes and Carrick - Pogba and Matic (most expensive cm on the planet and a proven EPL winner.

Rooney Tevez Ronaldo - Sanchez Lukaku Martial (perhaps not the same league, but a potentially top class attacking trio by any standards) .

We have some top class players, but the performances aren't where they should be. However, making false equivalences to previous teams is just a bit sad.

13 Feb 2018 13:58:07
Danny,

Have to agree, the first thing I saw when I read this was Herrera and Fellaini replacing Scholes and Carrick and just wondered who the 2 players were that were better than Scholes and Carrick back then as we have 2 midfielders better than Herrera and Fellaini now.

Weird comparisons to be honest Ken, I get what the narrative is but the points to back it up are way off.

13 Feb 2018 14:52:49
Sorry ken disagree with that. As Danny has stated above we haven’t got as bad a squad as everyone thinks. Granted that 08 team was one of the best this league has seen, we have some very good talent at our disposal now. But Jose is not getting enough out of them. I agree with the narrative we are not at the level we should be. But I disagree that this squad is not very good.

13 Feb 2018 14:54:44
Pogba replaced fellaini essentially but fellaini replaced scholes in the squad and herrera really replaced carrick and matic replaced herrera idnt see your point gds. jones and smsllung eere brought into replace rio and vidic yeah?
Im assuming you agree on tje full backs.
On the forwards i'm saying what's here now v then thete have been too many inbetween.
The club has seen the mistakes of bringing in fellaini and herrera to replace dcholes and carrick so bought better in pogba and matic and yes now we are 2nd so its improving.

13 Feb 2018 14:46:44
Hi becks. I agree with a lot of what you say there.
But kneejerk? This will be 5 seasons without a title challenge.
5 years of poor football.
Smalling and jones have been here for 7 seasons and as they play more often our position gets worse.

Fellaini is a great professional and gives his all but in 5 seasons his presence has not improved the team blind the same for 4 seasons darmian 3 rojo 4 there is no knee jerk reactions there.
Valencia and young are 33 its hardly a knee jerk reaction to be looking at replacements.

I would keep shaw herrera and martial but bring in top quality players for them to compete against and let the best men win.
Its a squad game and imo we have too many players that i would consider squad players or 2nd choice players starting every week or more often than not.
We also need our best centre back back fit and our big players pogba lukaku and sanchez to play at a higher level on a regular basis.
The team lacks a leader imo. A player that sets the standards and insists on those around him that they come up to those standards.
Its ok developing youth but they have got to have players ahead of them to learn from.

For example in the juve dressimg room pogba had chillini pirlo buffon and the likes to keep him straight.
Rooney and ronaldo had rio keane scholes neville etc
Winners that rooney and co all followed and wanted to win more than them.
We lack quality and winners and most importantly winning or big club mentality and experience in our squad. Matic and sanchez bring that we need a couple more.
If we want to get the best out of pogba lukaku bailly lindelof shaw jessie gomez tuanzabe, mctominay rash martial who are all under 24 and not yet mature enough to be the 'leaders of the team but have all got the potential to grow into leaders, we need to surround them with 4 or 5 more players of the level of sanhez matic ddg mata.

Not surround them with the likes of darmian blind jones smalling fellaini and rojo.
The under 24 brigade i mentioned above all 12 of them have lots of talent. Many of them cost a lot of money. But they are not yet ready to be the backbone of the team imo. They need ecperience around them top class experience.
Honestly its not all doom and gloom.
We have those 12 plus ddg romero valencia matic sanchez mata
A top cb to compliment bailly lindelof jones tuanzabe
A solid matic understudy
A top rb to replace toni
A top cm to compliment pogba
A top rw to compete with mata.
A top lb to compete with shaw.
players linked to us that i think fit the bill.
Cb varane.
Matic understudy and rb fabhino
Cm. Kroos / jorgihno/ savic
Rw bale
Lb sandro / rose / tierny
Release on free fellaini young carrick
Sell darmian blind smalling and rojo

None of that is knee jerk becks its all based on what I've seen in last 5 years mate. Just my opinion. Its not a major overhaul. The base is quite solid just think the squad needs some under pinning.
The most important thing is to sell those dragging the levels down. Get them out keep carrick as a coach but get a few proper senior pros in. I think it likely you will see less snap chat and more snap crackle pop.

13 Feb 2018 15:37:52
Park name me our good defenders.
Name me our good midfielders.
Now for me good is if you need them to play 20 plus games we still can win the league.

13 Feb 2018 15:44:51
Vidic and Evra both took a year to grow into the team, and as much as Vidic is praised, and for good reason, against some of the best teams/ players he was shown wanting. How many times did he get red carded against Liverpool? Besides which I'd rate Valencia as an improvement on Rafael, and Shaw is still re-emerging after an horrific injury and has the potential to be every bit as good as Evra.

You mention Scholes and Carrick but not Darren Fletcher? Scholes was brilliant but he was the last of his kind, a lifer who started out in the academy and stayed with the club until retirement. The other two were excellent players but it was not their brilliance or otherwise that was relevant so much as the way they fit into a team, and the heart they gave to it. Arguably Matic, Pogba and one new midfielder next year could be the equal of them. And as for the forwards, I think we might have an excellent group in Martial, Sanchez, Lukaku, and Rashford, although, as yet, they do not seem to be in sync. It's kind of understandable given the recent addition of Sanchez and the poor form of Pogba behind the forwards. So, yes, they have yet to prove themselves. Do we have a Christiano level player? No.

13 Feb 2018 16:01:08
Rio and vidic have been replaced by bailly and maybe lindelof and most likely another cb coming in summer.

Scholes and carrick have been replaced by Matic and Pogba. Its fletcher and anderson who have been replaced by herrera and fellaini.

rafael was never actually better than valencia has been only had potential to and given he never fulfilled it its a moot point.

Ronaldo is a once in a generation talent you don't find those every other season, the others you have listed can easily be replaced by the players replace by the players in our squad today.

Its funny you mention standards dropping while conspicuously failing to mention any of pogba, matic, ddg or sanchez.

13 Feb 2018 15:54:36
Attacking wise I think we are ok ken. Bailly is a good defender just struggles to keep fit. Jones and smalling are not good enough I agree. Lindelof has potential and j wouldn’t right him off yet. But I would be playing him in every game till the end of the season so that he can get used to the rigours of the league. Rojo is a decent understudy and Tuanzebe is immensely talented. We could do with one more top quality cbs. But let’s be honest how many defenders out there come close to Vidic and Rio? Those two were the best you could get and I ask you to name me 5 defenders that on their level currently in world foootball? I think you would struggle as there is a serious lack of quality. And if you could name 5, how attainable are they?

I agree we need another quality right back and a left back to compete with shaw. In midfield, Herrera matic pogba are good enough but we need two top quality additions. I would re integrate Fosu Mensah and pereira in midfield and I think they both would have made a big impact if they stayed this year.

Attack wise we are well stocked. I agree a rw would be a much needed addition so that we can utilise lukaku’s heading qualities in the box. But apart from that I would trust what we have got. Jose needs to find a solution and get the forwards working because we can keep throwing money at the forwards. It is clear that the tactics aren’t right and that’s what Jose gets the big bucks for.

13 Feb 2018 15:55:10
Bottom line is that we are miles behind the top team not just here but also abroad. We were not so behind years ago and bear in mind just how much we have spent already in the past few years. We should be much much closer to City for a start. The Utd teams of 1999 and 2008 were miles better than what we have now. For a start they were teams. Not a group of individuals who still have no recognisable consistentplaying pattern. Also those teams were full of leaders. Sorry guys but we are miles away from where we need to be. How many of this current team would be guaranteed a start in the teams of 1999 and 20008? That tells you how far we have fallen. The results this season prove it.

13 Feb 2018 17:01:53
Csm. When scholes retired we bough 1 midfielder. Fellaini. Fellaini replaced scholes in the squad. That is a fact.
Fergi bought jones and smallung as replacements for rio and vidic as per his autobiography. The fact is we have since purchaed players to replace tbose original replacements.

13 Feb 2018 17:05:06
So park you agree 5 new player's and to get rid of smalling blind fellaini darmian you would keep rojo not jones. You agree we need 2 moee full backs 2 midfielders and a rw. So what exactly do you disagree with?
You say its a good squad then go on to say 25% of it needs changing. ergo its not a good squad. Finished 4th or below 4 years on the bounce is not a good squad.

13 Feb 2018 17:10:23
Your right hedon. Anybody who argues otherwise is sadly mistaken biased or blind.

13 Feb 2018 17:53:33
Them players we are talking about from before this bunch of heartless players would have ate their way through Newcastle on sunday.

13 Feb 2018 18:36:56
Lol
Don't forget the 2011 cl final . won the league that year .
Fabio and evra fb.
Carrick and Giggs cm.
Tony park out wide.
Chicarito up top .

13 Feb 2018 18:54:55
Spot on leahy.

13 Feb 2018 19:04:57
Or the 2009 final
Park Giggs Anderson Carrick in midfield .
J oshea right back.

13 Feb 2018 19:06:35
Leahy
Yep them players never lost a single game . summers never ended and you could buy 5 pints and a pickled egg for a fiver .

13 Feb 2018 19:38:20
Personally I can’t believe we replaced Best with Ralph Milne, and Charlton with Tom Cleverly, it a disgrace.

13 Feb 2018 19:57:07
No jred your right I suppose the wouldn't beat a bad Newcastle team. lol.

13 Feb 2018 20:06:26
Leahy

We lost some silly games as well pal .

13 Feb 2018 20:16:46
Well done jred 2 great examples of teams that help my point teams with good experieced pros proven winners time and again, players that learned how to win and knew how to win. Not fancy names but teams with carrick giggs park o shea rooney evra rio vidic ( how many medals have that lot between them) sprinkled with young potetial players like nani anderson fabio and the likes.
But now we have young players better than anderson fabio rafeal etc here but not enough proven winners ddg matic sanchez mata toni is not enough. Pogba is not mature enogh yet.
Those teams you mentioned don't look right or fancy but they knew how to win and played under a great and succesful manager. The football was often poor at that time too. But wins and results kept coming. The legs ran out for the snr pros and tbose brought in to replace them are now snr pros at our club but they have little or no pedigree. Blind darmian rojo fellaini young smalling jones are now the longest serving snr pros at our club. Jeez not much they can pass on to the talented crop we have.
Despite his 30m price tag shaw is far from the finished article same for bailly lindelof.
Despite his 87m price tag and obvious talent pogba is also not the finished article.
Likewise lukaku martial rashford.
They all have great potential and need some good proven winners around them.

13 Feb 2018 20:19:36
Jred I was talking about Newcastle. And the other day you said the table doesn't lie. Where were Newcastle before they got 3 points off us.

13 Feb 2018 20:26:17
Lol now we need Giggs in cm 🤣🤣🤣🤣.

13 Feb 2018 20:24:30
Leahy we have been better than newcastle this season we are a better team than newcastle .
The table shows that .
Even great teams lose games .

You must get your football coupon up every week?
Ken your killing me pal on this page and the other .

13 Feb 2018 20:26:17
Lol now we need Giggs in cm 🤣🤣🤣🤣.

14 Feb 2018 14:26:47
I do agree with some parts of your OP Ken, I think the knee jerk reaction part (in my view) was with the post coinciding to a disappointing result against Newcastle.

I agree there are some players that need to pursue careers elsewhere - Smalling, Fellani (on the basis he looks unlikely to renew his contract) Zlatan, Darmian and maybe Blind, Rojo and Romero - the latter 3 more to get regular football.

I do think the squad is maybe 3/ 4 players away from being able to win the league and champions league especially when the young players like Gomes etc are considered. If in the summer the club sign a top class midfielder like a SMS, Weigel, Veratti, Jorgino to dovetail with Pogba and Matic, plus a CB and RB then think we're set.







 

 

 
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