29 Dec 2017 09:48:02
Just like to say a (late) Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all the posters and Eds.
Just thought I share my two cent on the club and Mourinho situation.
So 1 and a bit years ago when we hired Mourinho. We all knew what type of Manager we were getting. A winner at all costs type. He isn't going to play pretty football.
What happening now has happened at Real Madrid and Chelsea (twice) . That part where the club is at a cross roads and can either go in one direction (Mourinho) or the other (club philosophy) .
Lets be honest Mourinho isn't known for promoting youth through and playing attacking football (club philosophy) . The flirting with PSG and demanding for more transfer money is a hidden message to the board. You back me, give me control of signings or I'm going.
This transfer window and the months leading up to the summer will determine if he stays or goes.
Personally I want him to stay. I have had no issues with him apart from the way he set the team out against City in the 2nd half. We should of took the game to them. All this stuff he does with media is expected. Again he has been like this for the past few years. However I think he going to have to show some level of more commitment to the club and club is going to have to do same if they want to keep this relationship going onwards and forward. It either going to be a new contract for him or the classic self destruction of Mourinho.
29 Dec 2017 12:00:57
I think jm should be judged at the end of the season on progress made not now . We were 23 points off the pace last season let's see come the end where we finish and how far away we are . I get the city have spent a bit more argument so maybe hard to keep pace but if that's the rule of thumb then we should therefore be ahead of all the others which we currently are, people may fear some teams below may pass us but they haven't yet and we shouldn't judge him on what if but what is and at the seasons end .
29 Dec 2017 12:07:10
Shane
Just saying-
Previous to this Mourinho has given debuts to United academy graduates Joel Pereira, Axel Tuanzebe, Scott McTominay, Demitri Mitchell, Josh Harrop and Angel Gomes. Whilst Joe Riley, Matty Willock, Dean Henderson and Kieran O'Hara have also trained with the seniors or made matchday squads.
In terms of the transfer fee message, I said a couple of days ago that it’s about time someone challenged the Glazers to show real ambition. Well done to Jose for that. SAF fudged it with no value garbage and our built up advantage over years has been gifted away in the glory of chasing asset value improvements. Jose stays to build the power base and then develop from there, either with or without him.
29 Dec 2017 12:41:16
Fair assement that Red Man.
Mourinho (like or not) has not been backed properly in the market. He wanted a wide right player who could deliver straight away and instead we have to rely on yonger players coming through who may or may not make it at United.
We all hope Marshall and Rashford do make it but there is no guarantee they will. He also clearly wanted a left back.
The Glaziers flatter to decieve when it comes to spending money and spent nothing towards the end of Fergies reign and under Moyes. They make plenty of money out of our club each year so MOurinho is right to challenge them.
29 Dec 2017 15:51:02
So spending 300 million is not getting enough backing. Fact is mourinho did not pick his targets correctly, griezmann would have been signed but for the ban and no one in their right mind would agree to paying 50mn for perisic, if mourinho can't pick his targets adequately why blame the owners for that.
Frankly his signings while still being better than either lvg's or moyes's have been random and without regard to style of play he normally expects. Mkhitarayan isn't a mourinho player, he is a flair player who plays well in patches and as his experience with klopp showed he is not really a hard worker so why was he bought rather than someone who would have closer to mourinho's philosophy.
Same goes Lukaku, unlike any of drogba, Costa, milito or benzema, lukaku has little in way of actual technique, his hold up skills are worse than any 5 year old's, he is the complete opposite of what your normal mourinho striker is yet we spent 75mn on him rather than 60mn on morata who actually fits the mould. Lindelof is also turning out to be a poor signing.
Ibra last season scored goals but also missed enough chances to cancel out any advantage his goals provided, he is another player that looked out of place in the team as we have seen the improvement our attack has gone through due to basic fact that our striker isn't the slowest player on the pitch when playing counter attacking football.
Not all signings work out, they didn't for SAF or for any other manager including the bald guy next door but they at least need to be consistent with the style you want to achieve, mourinho's haven't been that for me. Can't blame the owners for that.
Also redman how many of those debutant players has he used this seadon, he has had opportunities to play tuanzebe and Mitchell both yet we haven't seen them anywhere near the team, he is never going to be a good manager for you if you are a young player trying to break into the team and a few random games when you have given up on a competition doesn't make him a great youth coach.
29 Dec 2017 16:39:34
Fact is we needed to spend more to get to City's level to begin with as City's first 11 was better.
We have spent a big amount but not enough to go the extra mile just yet.
Giggs has quite rightly come out and said there are problems in missing out on quality talent so it's not just in supporters heads about the Glaziers.
As for Mourinho not playing youth i don't see other managers doing much different there either.
29 Dec 2017 19:30:56
CSM
If you look at Pep and Jose’s starting position in terms of the quality of the team, City were much better. You can throw numbers around all you like but we had been left behind by years of underfunding by the Glazers and it needed urgent address. What we spent has us now challenging in the top four but unless you see quality in the team that I can’t, more spending is needed. Jose hasn’t come to do a Wenger, he wants to make his team No1 and in a world where a Southampton defender costs £75M, you and others need to get real on how much is needed to be spent.
Great point from Chorltonred about even Giggs pointing out recruitment but this also requires drive from the very top. Are the Glazers committed to making us No1 in the football world or the financial world? It needs to be both.
29 Dec 2017 20:19:39
When Jose and pep got there jobs city and utd had just finished 4 th and 5 th the previous season each with 66 points, they then both spent heavy under pep and Jose and the following season city were 9 ahead of utd, again they both spent heavy before the start of this season, granted city a bit heavier but now the gap is a chasm . The table suggests city and utd finished level points the season before the current managers not city starting a mile ahead or the phrase the table duznt lie is not true.
29 Dec 2017 20:29:30
We may well have finshed on the same points but City were a better team. Most people would agree with that. City under preformed whilst we preformed pretty much as you would expect from a side finishing 5th.
29 Dec 2017 20:46:05
Chorlton i don't expect man utd to win 19 of the 20 epl games played but it is 1 thing to expect that and another to expect a manager to win against burnley, leicester and bristol after spending 300mn, what mourinho expects is for fans to sympathise with him for being unable to beat 3 teams whose total player purchases from inception to today won't come to 300mn because city have spent more money than utd. I call that BS excuse from a manager who blames everyone for his failures and credits himself for all the achievements.
And about giggs's comments they are a pile of garbage, giggs told utd sign mbappe and jesus 3 years ago, he was the first team assistant then, are we really suppose to beleive that he was somehow also involved in scouting for the youth team, also city bid 40mn or so for mbappe at start of the last season it was rejected, don't see why utd's 5mn would have been accepted.
29 Dec 2017 21:19:02
Going on that basis then how did City manage to drop points against Everton? It's football and other teams are allowed to up their game and take points off us.
Yes we should be beating these teams but sometimes it doesn't work out like that. We lost 5 a season under Fergie and still won the league. Times change and teams adapt and get better.
We need to back him properly in the market and see where we are this time next season. If things are no better and the football is still poor to watch, then I will like you want a change.
As for Giggs talking rubbish I honestly don't know what to believe. What I do know is the Glaziers are not here because they love United like we all do.
29 Dec 2017 21:19:56
CSM
You “expect a manager to win against burnley, leicester and bristol after spending 300mnâ€. I presume you remember SAF had a major spending spree after he arrived and lost games after doing so?
Later in his time with us SAF lost to was it York in the League cup 3.0, at OT if I remember correctly. It happens and often we struggled under SAF in mid season but I doubt many used it against SAF.
The focus should be on the boardroom ambition, because the amount should be irrelevant, the board, the Glazers should want on field success as much as us, spend what it takes but do they? Why do you not want us to spend what it takes?
29 Dec 2017 22:41:04
We have had the 3rd biggest spend in Europe over the last 3 year .
We have the biggest wage bill in the epl.
Can't always blame the owners for the team not playing well .
Great people are mentioning fergy because he never needed to spend more than every club in Europe to be successful.
29 Dec 2017 22:55:52
It sounds pathetic United supports moaning about cash when we have the highest wage bill in the league and spend the amount we have .
Can you imagine how it sounds to other fans, of the teams that pogba cost more than .
We are second in the league with a strong squad that isn't really playing at the top of its game.
City have up the the bar to a level United have never achieved before a level Jose has never achieved .
Most points in any of the top leagues, most points in the history of English football.
The last time Jose won a title was with Chelsea, after the same amount of games as we have played now his title winning Chelsea team had 3 more points than we have now .
Mind you Chelsea never had to compete with a city team that where the best team English football has seen after 20 games .
I
So maybe this isn't quite as bad a squad as people want to make out or maybe Jose isn't doing quite as bad and maybe even the club who have spent a fourtune on wages and transfers aren't doing to bad.
Maybe city and pep are just a bit special, a bit like peps Munich and barce team .
29 Dec 2017 22:56:08
Good stat that jred and what was our spend in the previous years of "no value" in the market?
Fergie is gone and we need to move on as there might not be another like him.
29 Dec 2017 22:57:24
Jred
How successful was SAF in Europe?
Over 20 years with great teams and only 2 European Cups, maybe if there had been value in the market or the owners invested fully when needed we wouldn’t be lagging behind the Scouse after the greatest period of success at our club.
For your information. CIES Football Observatory numbers say Manchester City have committed €513m to transfer fees since Pep Guardiola's appointment.
Manchester United have committed €382m to fees since Jose Mourinho's appointment.
A difference of 34%.
29 Dec 2017 23:04:34
In 2006 Chelsea won the title with 95 points the record amount of points .
At this stage of the season they had a grand total of 6 points more than we have now .
And they didn't have to play a team like city .
29 Dec 2017 23:28:25
Mendy 57 mil not kicked a ball
Silva 50 mil hardly kicked a ball
Danilo 30 mil hardly kicked a ball
Luis 12 mil not played
Gundagon 27 mil Injured more than he has played
Nolito 18 mil pretty poor
Bravo 18 mill awful
Danilo 30 mil, really not that good .
215 mil euro there
Do we judge a player on how much he cost tho?
Stones a player who I really like was bought for 55 mill and everyone laughed and said he was a waste of money
Sane has come on loads bought at 20 years old and has adapted to the league etc really well
Jesus only 19 again playing well .
Shame we can't say that about more of our players .