28 Oct 2017 10:25:17
There's a great thread further down the page discussing which manager between Mourinho and Pochettino is currently the better manager. It's an interesting point which I wanted to explore a little. So here's my two cents.
I think comparing Mourinho and Pochettino is a little like comparing Ronaldo and Mbappe, one has been there and won it all, the other is a the start of their journey. So going on that theme who would you rather United sign? Ronaldo who you know will bring a level of success but it won't last long, or do you go for the young hungry guy with it all to prove in Mbappe. He might not ever reach the heights of Ronaldo but he might get close. But he has longevity, and signing him would be a step towards the future rather than a step backwards into the past.
Jose has been a great manager, but even great manager have a sell by date. A point when their methods get worked out and football evolves beyond them. The only exception to this was Sir Alex who used to keep things fresh by regularly changing his backroom staff with younger hungerer guys who are part of the newer evolved football that was emerging. He would embrace their new ideas and allowed them a certain amount of freedom with training and tactics. Certainly towards his final years he was closer to being a director of football than a coach. But that isn't Jose who will never allow anyone else to have any control other than him. Jose will have a sell by date. Just like Wenger, Lippi, LvG and all those managers who were cutting edge in the late 90's but have since moved into the has beens category, still very good managers, but their methods have been studied adapted and football has progressed past them. The weaknesses of Wengers teams now is the same weakness they have always had, but now teams know how to exploit it better and it becomes harder for Wenger to make that way of playing a successful one.
So has Jose been found out? Sadly I think he has, he certainly hasn't show the humility needed to learn from his past mistakes as he keeps making the same mistakes over and over again. He also hasn't changed his style of football. He want's his teams to have the physical advantage, he plays with a tight defence and hits teams on the counter, he wants to keep the game as tight as possible unless this teams have a clear advantage. It is a pragmatic way. There is nothing wrong with that, it has after all brought him one of the largest trophy hauls of any manager in football. But his success invariably means people will study him, look into his method, analyse them and try and unpick them. Some will be successful in that and if they get results against him then others will look to copy those methods that have got the better of Jose. If Jose doesn't adapt he will go down the same route as Wenger and still be trying to succeed with the same brand of football 10 years or more after it got found out.
Pochettino for me represents the future of management, at least for the next 4-5 years maybe as many as 10. He is about to enter his managerial prime. He does in a lot of way remind me of SIr Alex, that doesn't mean he will be anywhere near as successful, or have the longevity. But he does have an affinity for playing good football, entertaining football. He does inspire players go give their absolute maximum and run through brick walls for him. And he does truly trust in youth and gives them a chance to flourish. I read a stat that the majority of players to be given their England debut over the last 3-4 years have been given a chance in club football by Pochettino. There is a question of does he have the winning mentality, but his Spurs team have twice finished 2nd in the most competitive league in the world with far less resources than those teams he is competing with. Spurs would have won the league for the last two seasons if they could afford the kind of strength in depth that we, City or Chelsea enjoy. Where as we have Lukaku, Ibrahimovic, Martial and Rashford vying for the strikers spot they have Kane, Llorente and Janssen (who has since left) . If Spurs could afford to have a second string of the quality of ours they would be going for their third title in a row this season. Jose may have won a great deal, but he has always had the luxury of managing at top clubs in the countries he has been in and had massive financial backing. For me Pochettino will probably win more titles over the next 5-10 years than Jose will.
I never wanted Jose for our manager, I argued that his style is sometimes not great on the eye, I argued that he has a poor record with youth players, and I said he doesn't learn from his mistakes so it will end badly. That being said he is our manager, and currently he hasn't done anything that warrants getting of him. He has lead us to two trophies in his first year and he has us competitive during his second. We should therefore back him until such a point that it is clear he needs removing.
28 Oct 2017 11:12:21
Very interesting post shappy. I have really enjoyed the debate in the thread down below and it has made me think a lot about both managers as well.
Personally, since the day Jose stepped foot into the premier league back in 2004 I have really wanted him to become our manager. He was a breathe of fresh air with his enthusiasm and he way he would own his press conferences. He was in my eyes the perfect man to take over from Sir Alex. I admired his first Chelsea team who were both physically powerful with the ability to play. Fast forward ten years and with Sir Alex retiring, there was only one man for me to take over. And that was Jose. Now we have endured a terrible 3 years with Moyes and LVG and when Jose was finally appointed I was thrilled. Perhaps naively I thought this was the club that he would really lay down his roots and build some sort of dynasty for the next 6-10 years. But he seems to be a shadow of his former self. For someone who has supposedly coveted and wanted the United job all his career, he surely is not acting like a man who has got his supposed ‘dream’ job. He will win us trophies and like I said I really am I massive fan of his. But there is an heir of right man wrong time - or too little too late about Jose. If he was here straight after Sir Alex it would have been the perfect appointment. We would have won a few leagues and challenged for the European cup.
Now onto Poch. For me he is the best manager in the league as I mentioned down below on the thread. He has built a rock solid defence whilst playing delightful attacking football at a tempo much like the united teams of old. He has done this on a fraction of the budget and his man management skills seem second to none. There is an air of a young Sir Alex with him and his players look like they would run through a brick wall for him. With united’s budget, I think he would do wonders whilst also playing the attacking brand of football that united should be playing. The only thing I think he lacks is that nasty/ ruthless streak that Fergie and Jose had. That is what won them trophies and has kept them hungry. Poch needs a trophy win very soon to show that he can win as opposed to being the bridesmaid again. I would love Poch after Jose and if it is possible then the club have to make it happen. It is the perfect stage for him to show he is one of the best managers in the world and his style of play would be a match made in heaven for us.
28 Oct 2017 11:16:12
Great write up Shappy. I woould like to agree with it but i just think that its a bit one sided. Like in the first para u compare Ronaldo and Mbappe. Now Mbappe may reach that level but there is also the possibility that he may be Ravel Morrison, Januzaj etc. Similarly for Poch, his style is similar to that of Klopp of fast speed neck break speed football. He has the right tools at his disposal right now. Would his team be the same with Matip in defence? I am yet to see that ruthlesness in him and his team to go over the line. Leicester and Chelsea both had it more than him to win it. He is a brilliant young manager no doubts but he really needs to win something to be even in the same bracket as all the great managers you listed. At one point in time moyes was rated similarly by several top managers including SAF but as soon as he was at a club where winning matters, he didn't have a clue. There are lots of such managers who are really good like Klopp, Koeman et al but you need to be the best to be at a top club.
Hopefully Poch wins something soon and then when we go looking for a Jose replacement, he is at the top of the applicants.
28 Oct 2017 11:49:17
Big one sided but a good post .
How about Ronaldo continues to be the best in the world mbappe never makes the top grade .
28 Oct 2017 11:49:53
Shan, you say how would Pochettino cope with having Matip in his defence? Well Lovern is the biggest liability in that Liverpool defence, and yet he was superb in Southampton’s defence under Pochettino. He has taken player’s who were considered talented like Rose and Walker and helped them realise their potential. He has done the same with Davies and Trippier. Eriksen and Alli have grown into players that Real Madrid and Barcelona are looking at. Then there is Harry Kane, a player who was seemingly destined for the exit door and was never considered a top prospect at White Hart Lane at the end of the 2013/ 14 season. In came Pochettino for the 2014/ 15 season who gave him a chance in pre season, he played well and Pochettino saw something in him and gave him a chance, by the end of that season people were asking was he a flash in the pan, but he has continued under his manager guidance in the 2015/ 16 season and in the 2016/ 17 season winning golden boots and play of the year awards along the way. He is now considered one of the best strikers in the world, how much of that is down the the faith Pochettino placed in him?
For me Pochettino is now at that level to be considered for a top job at one of the top clubs in world football. Whoever gets him will win titles under him. It is a question of who will plump for him first. The only thing holding him back is his clubs lack of ability/ foresight to invest heavily to build a squad capable of competing and winning on all fronts.
28 Oct 2017 12:09:39
Forget Poch for a moment, the question for me is whether Jose is yesterday's man and are his best days behind him. I fear they are.
28 Oct 2017 12:33:15
He has never had to balance the egos of a big squad. He was also lucky with Kane. He bought strikers who failed and he had nothing but a young Harry Kane in the squad left to try.
Big clubs are a massive transition for any promising manager. I'd rather have Jose for now.
28 Oct 2017 13:40:14
I don't see poch leaving any time soon.
28 Oct 2017 17:16:07
Morrison and januzaj didn't score 27 goals in a season including champions league he is more than potential mbappe is already a class act he gets into the French squad ahead of martial.
28 Oct 2017 18:09:35
I think jose is a great manager and needs one more window. People here seem to forget that city, who already had a pretty darn squad have bought 12 players to the tune almost 700 mill since guard iola joined.
We need better options than Darmian, lingard, A left back and more debt in cm as pogba, will never be able to play a whole season without getting injured and evident without him we have dropped off considerably.