Manchester United banter 77053

 

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28 Sep 2017 17:42:22
Guys i realise the term ' world class' is often bandied about and is a very subjective view, but let's say the top 3 in each position in the world.
How many wc players given that criteria do you think are playing in the epl?
Personally i'd say no more that 12 including the likes of ddg hazard mendy aguero .

{Ed002's Note - You may want to look at the Liverpool banter page.}

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28 Sep 2017 18:01:48
for me it is players that could walk into any side and improve it. Kante would be in that bunch. De Gea would be another. I am not convinced that Hazard would because he is competing with the likes of Ronaldo, Messi etc for a place. For me, I would say there are probably at most 22 players that could be considered world class in the world. Probably 4 or 5 in the Prem.

28 Sep 2017 18:11:58
I did I've been reading it ed that's why i asked on here for opinions. Personally i'd also say matic as a holding defencive midfielder (which kante is not imo) he is without doubt in the top 2 imo. Mendy on last years form also as a left back could arguably be included. So you could perhaps stretch to 6 or 7 in that 22 but a dozen at most if you but a no of 36 on it. With possibly only 1 or 2 in an 11. Ddg being the best In the world imo with neur out and buffon aging.

28 Sep 2017 20:05:36
The term "World class" is so subjective it is almost impossible to lock down. I've heard many different ideas on how you can implement some kind of rules to determine who is world class.

Things like "ability to walk into any team in the world". I don't think that works, first off what about players best positions. Some players are great at wing back but not so good at full back for example, so would they walk into a team that plays with full backs instead of wing backs. This argument completely disregards tactics, playing style, and the other players in the team. Football is a team sport at the end of the day and the best team is made up of many varying parts which all complement each other. Therefore the idea of a player having to walk into any team in the world to be considered world class is too restrictive and not understanding of the finer points of football.

Then there is the idea of "the best 2 or 3 players in every position". Again I don't see this as workable. For example what do you do when there aren't any great players in one position? Does that mean an above average player becomes "world class" just because there aren't any great players in his position at that time?

I think world class should be slightly broader and open for discussion. For me a world class player consistently plays at a very high level over many years and has a telling impact on his team.

28 Sep 2017 20:48:00
Flip sake, Shappy. Way to rain on Ken's parade.

28 Sep 2017 21:03:06
Shappy I agree. Good post.

28 Sep 2017 21:01:43
πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚

Noucamp.

28 Sep 2017 21:40:14
Good post shaps.

29 Sep 2017 00:22:15
If you are the best 2 in the world in your position then you are world class.

How can you be that and not be that good? Why make it any more complicated than that?

29 Sep 2017 00:26:52
Shappy. If you are one of the best in your position in the world at any given time then you are world class in that postion at that time not average.
You may be deemed as not as good in that position at players that have gone before but if there are no players better than you at that particular time then you are the best in thst era.
For example at 1 point in his career keegan was one of the best and was wining what's now the ballon dor. Looking back is he one of the great players In tne history of footbsll? Maybe not but for a couple of years he was one of the best anywhere so was world class at that time.
Will the Leicester epl winning team go down as a great team in the record books? No but for 1 season they proved themselves to be the best team In England over a season so for that season they were the best team.
Its a term you have used yourself on many am occasion.

29 Sep 2017 00:33:31
So vardy could be deemed as world class because he had had a telling impact on his team for a sustained period including winning a league. No not for me because at that time there were so many better strikers than him in world football.
Jesus using your criteria ricky lampert and justin fashanu could be deemed as world class.
So yes its totally subjective but having a good impact on your team over a sustained period does not mean your world class imo.

29 Sep 2017 07:24:29
Dodgy, so Valencia is a world class right back? If not name me a couple of right backs better than him atm?

When people start naming the world class players in the EPL how many of them include Valencia?

Valencia is an above average right back, at times he is very good. But is he world class? Look at his attributes, he is strong and quick, but his positioning isn't great which isn't surprising considering he was a winger until he was 26. His timing of tackles has improved, but still not to a world class level. His overall defensive skills are above average but nowhere near a world class level. Full backs are expected to create as well as defend in modern football. So how does Valencia fair? He has never got more than a handful of assists a season. Nearly every United fan I've spoken to have had issue with his crossing.

So how can Valencia be "World class"? Yet there isn't anyone better than him atm so the bar for achieving world class has been lowered. Gary Neville was a far better right back than Valencia but during the time he was playing there were many great right backs meaning Neville may never be considered world class while the inferior Valencia is? That can't be right.

29 Sep 2017 07:54:33
No Ken, I wouldn't say those players are world class. But you missed part of what I consider is required to make you world class. Yes you need to make a telling and consistent impact for your team, but I also said it needs to be at a very high level. I also said consistent over many years. Vardy had one stand out season, other than that he has been decent and nothing more.

Under the best in their position or able to walk into any team in the world criteria Valencia probably qualifies as a World class player. But answer me honestly when you tried to decide how many world class players are in the EPL did you include Valencia in your workings?

Probably not which means you don't really consider him world class. Yet the criteria say he is, so is he?

Of course not, this is why I don't agree with those kind of restrictive rules that as I have proven don't really work in practice.

Ultimately "world class" is just another term such as "top draw" which pundits and the media like to band about to create a buzz and excitement, hyperbole to draw people in get them discussing football and debating it to increase its popularity and therefore the financial benefits for those working within the industry.

29 Sep 2017 08:23:50
World Class to me is being able to adapt to different styles and different games while still consistently turning out a good performance and affecting their teams performance for the better on a regular basis. Consistency is the key word. No matter the game or opposition, the performance does not suffer. World class players are hungry and confident with a little bit of ego. Ibra, Ronaldo, Messi etc all have the above in abundance. That's what separates them from the rest.

29 Sep 2017 09:31:16
Valencia is not world class at all. Coleman bellerin and azpi ( chelsea) are all better in this league alone carvahal kimmich munier all better imo so not sure why you use him as an example shappy. In vardy case is winnung the epl not a high enough level.

29 Sep 2017 10:25:11
Interesting debate. I've seen Vardy have a world class game but this doesn't make him world class per se.

The phrase is used far too often and I guess it means different things to different people. For me, world class means a significant step up from others which using this definition means there are not that many out there. However, the term itself can be relatively pointless. I don't think Eric was world class but he was one of the best players I have seen play and where we would have been without him? Andy Cole was far from world class but what a player he was for us. Same for Sparky, Choccy, Irwin, and so many others.

In terms of ken's opening post, in th EPL I would rate Kane in that bracket, probably DDG right now, and if he carries on developing, KDB will soon be there.

29 Sep 2017 10:29:57
There is no way anyone with eyes could honestly say that Coleman or Bellerin have played better than Valencia over the past 6-12 months. And in that time Azpilicueta has played exclusively at centre back for Chelsea. Carvajal, Kimmich and Meunier are all good shouts, though I always think full back is a much easier position when you're dominating teams week in week out in a way that just isn't possible in the Premier League. However I also agree that Valencia is not a world class right back. So go figure.

29 Sep 2017 13:47:14
Coleman hasn't been consistent for two years, granted mostly because of injury but you can't be the best in the world of you can't get on the pitch.
Bellerin had a great first season, but he hasn't quite kicked on. Still very good, but he wasn't better than Valencia last season. And he certainly has the potential to become a great in the game.

Azpi has only played a handful of games at RB in the last three years. He has more often than not played at LB or CB. So he can't be considered a better RB especially while being kept out of that position my Victor Moses.
Carvajal has been solid, but nothing special, if he had been Real Madrid wouldn't have been looking to replace him. He had to share the role with Danilo until Madrid sold him to City in the summer.

Kimmich looks a hell of a player, but will probably end up being a midfielder, and has only played RB for one season, and he rotated a lot during that season too.
Meunier has been good for PSG, but he doesn't as yet look a world class player. In truth all these players are currently much of a muchness, nine stand out as being significantly better than the rest so either they are all world class or none of them are. Can we really have 6 world class right backs none of which are outstanding? It doesn't make any sense.

29 Sep 2017 15:18:23
Meunier is awful defensively.







 

 

 
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