29 Jul 2017 07:35:38
The doom and gloom on here is frustrating.
Firstly, I am not saying we have a fantastic shad, or we will win the League, or that we don't still have issues that need addressing. But let's take a step back.
Last year we won 2 cups but had a disappointing league campaign. We dominated a lot of games but dropped a lot of points at home to teams we would normally beat. The problem seemed to be that final piece of converting chances.
And so to this year. We've lost Ibra and replaced him with Lukaku. I think this makes us stronger due to Lukaku's pace and energy. Ibra is an icon but he was very static and slowed output play down, he may have scored a lot of goals but so does Lukaku. We've signed a CB who is yet to settle but he is proven international who most on here were happy with. DDG is still here, Rashford is a year older, Pogba has had a year to settle, we have some good youngsters who should be given chances.
I look at other teams and don't see anything that scares me. Liverpool now have Europe and haven't bought well, I think They will struggle this year. Arsenal are trying to hold onto Sanchez and after a poor year last year, not sure how they improve. Spurs have bought nobody yet. They may have a young team but if you stand still you get overtaken. City and Chelsea look strongest but City spent a load of money last year and struggled, whilst Conte is like a chimp with a machine gun - they are being linked with mor players than we are. I also think swapping Costa for Morata will hurt them in terms of goals.
We still have areas to address but some posters have become locked into a spiral of negativity - "we're all doomed". Get a grip, if the team gel and have the right mentality and attitude, we will compete domestically with anyone. Bring it on neg heads.
29 Jul 2017 07:50:34
*squad*.
29 Jul 2017 07:59:40
Absolutely spot on Tony. Don't get the negativity tbh, couldn't agree more with your assessment.
29 Jul 2017 08:04:34
Saying Conte is like a chimp with a machine gun is being a bit disrespectful towards one of the best coaches in European football right now, don't you think? It's not his fault Chelsea are being linked with a lot of players. The press are making stuff up as usual, it's how they work.
29 Jul 2017 08:10:10
Hi AJH.
I'm quite optimistic this season, but it is mainly down to pure faith than logic. I have had a bet on the top two being us 1st and City 2nd.
I see us treading water, Ibra and Lukaku are similar, undoubtedly Lukaku's pace and power is a bonus, but he isn't as street smart as Ibra, he lacks that special aura. I think opponents feared playing against Ibra more than they will Lukaku - media hype is a powerful thing. Lindelof will probably need time to settle.
How much will Rashford play as a striker? He is nowhere near as effective out wide and last season would have been a total waste had Ibra not got injured towards the end. So I see him having lost a year and not sure if he will get much game as a striker this year either.
I think Miki and Pogba will be much better this season, hopefully Shaw will come back like a new signing as well. So those are big pluses, but again hopeful rather than definite.
Unlike you I do look at our rivals and think for the most part they have strengthened more than we have and it will be even harder this season. We even have West Ham and Everton looking very very strong.
In saying that last year we didn't just fail to put the ball in the net, we also played very very cagey and negative football. During and after every game last season (bar a couple) the consensus was that we lacked the willingness to commit and Jose was far to quick to park the bus and hope for a moment of magic. Most games were borefests and it would be nice to see a bit more Utd spirit.
The reason I have backed us is mainly down to the fact that this team can't be as bad as last year and Jose should have learnt from our very poor season. World Class managers learn from mistakes and last year was horrible. Those two cups were not very good to watch, we stumbled through both of them, deserving to get beat in many games during both campaigns, so I don't look at them as indications of the right trajectory, I see them as our luck being in and mostly playing against very weak opposition. Just look back at our Europa League fixtures and it's obvious lady luck was on our side, and we still did everything we could to scupper success.
Last year I put a decent chunk on us winning the league, our odds are much shorter this year and I had to throw the City part in to keep it interesting because I don't think 3/ 1 odds is not a good price, 6/ 1 is more realistic. Our rivals are stronger, it's a harder season ahead, I hope we live up to our now waning reputation and not the dross we have been subjected to for the past 5 years.
29 Jul 2017 08:10:43
Come on Jackson, he's been disrespectful about Spurs, sacked Costa by text, he looks a little rattled to me. Of course he is a great coach and a real character but he also seems to be as mad as a box of frogs.
29 Jul 2017 08:36:47
I was expecting Conte to explode last season but it wasn't close enough. Under pressure he will flip and it will be fun to watch, just a shame he is getting rid of the people in his squad that would have told him to STFU and really got him going. Costa and Terry could have been the perfect fuse, but it won't take much this year with it being even more competitive.
I hate how the media fawn over these Italian managers just because they dress sharp and make our home grown managers look like pikeys. Mancini was the same, all style and no substance, as soon as the pressure arrives they are the first to crack - looking forward to it, Pep will be the same as well if things don't go his way.
29 Jul 2017 08:43:39
Good post Beast, glad you're optimistic although I'm don't see West Ham or Everton challenging the top 4.
I don't agree with the playing style point, initially I really enjoyed watching us and it felt like a new dawn. If we had managed to put a few of those teams away at home things might have been different and later on we did become cagey, I hope we avoid that this year. The most exciting part for me is we now have pace up front, I regularly commented last year on Ibra's lack of mobility (I think I called him a lamppost a few times) and this will have slowed our play down.
Jose seems a little more relaxed and settled as well, last year he was needlessly spiky and gripey but so far he seems like the Jose of old.
29 Jul 2017 08:45:02
Tony. Goid post and I agree about arsenal and Liverpool, especially if Sanchez and coutinho leave their respective clubs.
Chelsea were 21 points ahead of us last season and they've added a solid CB, defensive midfielder who is younger and more dynamic than Matic and an excellent attacker in Morata. Anyone thinking Morata is a step down from Costa doesn't know the player. He works extremely hard and is very talented and will convert chances.
Spurs have shown over the past two years that they can compete in the PL. They've lost a very good full back but they have back-up on that front and might yet buy.
Brings us to City. Guadiola has had a year to work with the squad and is creating another Barcelona. He's upgraded all the fullbacks. He's added one of the most creative players around in Bernardo Silva. Replaced a rubbish keeper with one of the best young keepers around. And they're still looking to buy a CB and Sanchez will be on his way there too. They have a very balanced squad and a very creative one.
All the teams above us last year scored a Shed load of goals more than us. I don't see us out scoring Chelsea, city or Spurs.
This idea that people are being negative because they criticize or point out defficincies is pathetic. Some can only see a positive and some can see only negatives and others are in between and are realistic. I think most posters fall in the latter category.
So Chelsea spurs and city all scored between 25 and 31 goals more than us last season. We need to score around 85 goals to win the league. Let's assume lukaku scores 20 of these. Do you honestly believe that Rashford martial mkhiktaryan lingard and pogba will score 60-65 goals beteeen them? That is averaging 12 goals each. This simply is not going to happen.
I accept your point about us converting the draws into wins. We can and should be able to do that, but apart from trading zlatan for Lukaku, we've not added any creativity or goals to the team. So how are we going to achieve that. Lastly, our performances and results against the 5 teams who finished above us were truly shocking. We played well against arsenal and Chelsea at OT and got a lucky result against Spurs. But played terribly the rest of the matches. These teams have not gone weaker and two are arguably even stronger. Have we strengthened enough to think anything will change? Not in my opinion.
29 Jul 2017 09:15:49
Schmid, I think we all know h w you feel, you tell us most days.
Stats are stats and don't lie, we were a long way behind last year. As I said at the start of my post I am not suggesting everything is rosy or that we will win the League.
Spurs haven't strengthened, they are relying on their existing team pushing on. The only 2 teams that have been busy are Chelsea and City. Remember all the players City bought last year? How did that work out? People were handing them the title after 5 games yet they struggled all year and won nothing. Chelsea look strong but Morata doesn't score goals like Costa does so we will see how that one works out.
I guess my wider point is one you made yourself, some posters are naturally optimistic whilst some are naturally pessimistic, I expect us to be better this year, score more goals, finish 3rd, and then push on again next year. My original post was about the constant moaning that has been going on all week because we aren't in for the big names. Here's a question, when SAF was here how many overseas big names did we sign? Veron (who didn't work out) springs to mind but beyond that? Kleberson? Another failure. There wasn't a queue for RVN, none of us had heard of Stam, Cantona was unwanted at Leeds, most clubs laughed at the pice we paid for Ronaldo, when we have got he after the big names they seem to have used us to get better deals at their current clubs.
SAF was successful with limited squads but he instilled a true team spirit and got the best out of them. We won trophies with Ees Brown, John O'Shea, Luke Chadwick, Phil Neville, solid committed players who all did a job. Jose is a top Manager, let's see how he does this year.
29 Jul 2017 09:20:19
Schmid
I agree on the goals front, we still need a top level goal scoring forward
One point seemingly missed is Spurs playing at Wembley, it could make them less competitive.
In terms of the league winners, sadly I see City having a better season than us as things stand. We also need to steel ourselves to potentially seeing City lift the CL trophy in the next couple of years, possibly this season especially if they add any more quality and we don't. Do not tell me Perisic is the level of B Silva, DeBruyne and co, let alone Sanchez. You can see City's ambition from the owners down, but you can't with us, profit, asset value is a clear ambition, absolutely, but where has our ambition been to sit with Madrid and co in recent years? Non of us know why we are not completing our transfer activity, we can only hope it is big because unless we get the player that makes a difference, a Bale, Sanchez, Neymar level it will be third in the league at best for us.
I think Jose is making the right moves and we are going in the right direction but the club need to back him to the hilt. No more Glazer excuses, spend what is really needed, or we will fade from the highest level.
29 Jul 2017 09:31:20
Let's assume lukaku scores 30 and 10 between the defenders and, herrara fosu mensa, carrick if perisic comes in he could score say 6 or 7 so that leaves 35 or so between mata, miki, Rashford, martial, lingard don't think that is so unrealistic, I suppose you are either pesimistic or optimistic.
29 Jul 2017 09:36:14
Seeing the way Conte behaves on the touchline, I think a chimp with a machine gun would have more self control.
29 Jul 2017 09:42:12
It's one thing being negative and another being realstic. City and Chelsea were both at a higher level last season in terms of squads and league position.
To assume that will change as we have replaced Ibra with Lukaku is wishful thinking for me.
Everyone wanted Ibra out of the side last season and wanted Rashford up front. What happened when everyone got there wish?
Nothing much really just less goals and no one to lead the line.
We all want Rashford and Martial to come good but being young does mean they will.
There was no debate about Rooney being good enough at 18,19,20 or 21 and nor was there one about Ronaldo. The fact the question marks are there worries me and more in Martial than Rashford.
We need more than what we have got so far and more than likely a few players will be added. If not let's not kid ourselves and pretend everything is great and we are all happy.
Woodward is not great in the trasfer market which at times does hinder us however there are many players over the years we have missed out on by bot going the extra mile.
I still think 2 or 3 more will come in and then we can look forward to this season with a great amount of optimism.
29 Jul 2017 09:46:11
All making valid points. The main thing we all want is to have excitement and goals back in our play. Sanchez and/ or Neymar will guarantee success, goals and excitement.
The way I see it if it stays the same with no other transfers, we will be fighting Liverpool and arsenal for 4th spot. That's the best we can achieve. I don't see a lot of goals in our team and goals win matches.
However, if we do buy Veratti and Sanchez or Neymar, then I think we will be champions.
You can see the frustration in mourinho when talking about transfers. He's putting a brave face on it but deep down, I think he's extremely frustrated with Woodward and the idiots in charge.
29 Jul 2017 10:05:00
Schmids point on the number of goals we scored is valid. However I do feel this will be improved on a number of fronts. Lukaku will get more than Zlatan did in PL. Also I think Rashford and Martial will contribute more.
Pogba should also have had a better number of goals, I can't believe he will hit the woodwork quite as much this season. Also I believe he will improve massively.
If Peresic/ Bale comes in they will contribute more too.
29 Jul 2017 10:06:45
Charlton, good post. I am not kidding myself and agree more work is needed. I just look at it from a slightly different perspective I guess.
29 Jul 2017 10:08:30
remembering some of our park the bus tactics against the bigger teams and the excuse was that jose doesn't trust this team to be able to defend whilst playing attacking football. The problem being we have not addressed that issue so far so unless we get a decent DM can we expect exactly the same tactics this season.
29 Jul 2017 11:20:35
Good thread.
I think we do have rose tinted specs on in most cases regarding how we actually played last season. it wasn't just a case of us parking the bus against the big teams, we were doing it once we went a goal up against weaker teams as well, almost every time. As soon as we scored that was it. We also failed to push men forward, we often attacked with 3 players maximum, far too cautious.
We played a lot of games last season, no more than a handful did I come away thinking, "we are on the right track, it is starting to click". That said I think Miki and Pogba will get at least 25 between them this season and Lukaku will score more than Zlatan as well given the same number of chances (hopefully a lot more) .
I'm more concerned about us being well off the pace last season and we haven't done enough in the transfer market to make up anywhere near the gap - we should be signing the Douglas Costa's, Silva's, Mendy's. In fact we have possibly regressed compared to most of our rivals. So we are relying on Jose getting more from the players and the players responding to the responsibility of playing for the club. I think it will happen because any less than last year will simply not be tolerated.
Most important thing in my humble opinion is the manager being bright, passionate and fully committed. Last year he had a mardy attitude and generally looked like he was managing under duress. If you want the players to perform they need to believe the manager is in for the fight with them. That alone is worth 15 points imo. Also going to smash teams, not simply eek out a 1-0.
29 Jul 2017 11:52:29
I agree with red man, beast, Chorlton. It is a matter of buying the right quality and the team gelling together. If we buy two top players, a winger and a DM of the stature if Sanchez Neymar Veratti, then I can see us being champions. But for now Chelsea city and even Spurs will be tough to bypass. All of the above three teams scored than 25 goals more than us, so a big gap to bridge and saying Rashford and martial are a year older does not wash with me, so are sanÄ—, Jesus, Aguero, hazard etc.
29 Jul 2017 12:27:01
Yeah some very valid points here. It's not all doom and gloom but as it stands right now its not perfect as Ajh and many others say.
Red Man and Sch on the button and if we sign a another goalscoring attacker with a dfm we could easily win the league. However i suppose that's what many teams are saying and if only it was that simple.
The impact RVP had proves goals can win you the league.
Beast also makes some very good points about being 1 nil up and being negative. I think for 3/ 4 of the season we played good stuff and many missed opportunities stopped us being further up the table. That being said JM likes to defend a lead so even with his ideal team he will do that bar maybe his Madrid team
Under Moyes, when he won the league with Chelsea, at Ot he made changes when they were in control and on nil up which resulted in them only drawing.
Lets hope we still add 2 or 3 and if not it's not impossible to think what we have can't improve and be even more successful.