20 Jun 2017 22:15:42
It seems United's illustrious leader is the latest footballing figure to be named as part of an elaborate tax evasion scheme. I for one am glad that the Spanish Prosecutor is now taking a hardline stance against these individuals because this is starting to really become a complete and utter farce.
It is downright crookery and it will not end until someone at the peak of their powers is put behind bars be that a Mourinho, Ronaldo, Messi, Di Maria or a Mendes. These hidden offshore accounts for trafficking money in sport is no different to capital embezzlement.
We all pay tax, no one wants to be it but it is necessary. At the end of the day these already insanely rich individuals are stealing from our schools, hospitals and national security etc. A great man once said as part of society we are all entitled to life, liberty and property - maybe this should be taken away from these thieving criminals to teach them a lesson.
{Ed007's Note - They're all at it mate, Google "footballers film tax loophole".}
20 Jun 2017 22:46:18
So you don't do anything tax efficient? Do you have an ISA for example?
These guys will have paid more Illinois in tax, yet aren't contributing?
{Ed007's Note - Man utd tax
20 Jun 2017 23:56:44
Very interesting Ed. It is an absolute disgrace. The sooner the UK Govt get tough on this sort of thing the better in my opinion.
{Ed007's Note - It's rife in football - look at the mess Rangers ended up in - but I totally agree with you that people should pay their dues, they're too busy chasing the wee gadge down the street for out cutting folks grass while the rich siphon off millions.}
21 Jun 2017 00:19:07
Fresh please tell me you are not comparing an ISA to high end criminal fraud? If so it just shows a lack of understanding and narrow-mindedness.
It is irrelevant how many millions these individuals have contributed in the past. The fact is they have a duty to be adherent to the specific tax bracket that they fall under whilst residing in that country.
It doesn't matter if you earn 500gbp or 5000gpb per week you are still obliged to pay your share of tax in relation to the law. What if we all on here decided we have paid enough tax in the past so we will just pay half the amount and bank the rest into a shady account. Do you think we would get prosecuted and most probably imprisoned in the future? The answer in case you were wondering is indeed yes.
21 Jun 2017 07:17:07
Come on Fresh, why is it that those who have way more than others seek to avoid paying their tax? It's pathetic. They have more money than they will ever be able to spend yet they want to avoid their repsonsibilities, it's immoral.
Propel hate paying tax but it's necessary, for most of us it is a pain as we have mortgages, cars, bills to worry about. When do any of these footballers (or pop stars, or film stars) have to worry about a bill? They need to get a grip and pay their tax.
21 Jun 2017 07:36:03
Agree with maze and ajh. However, their tax advisers are legally exploiting loopholes in the tax systems. So in effect, they're not doing anything wrong. However, it is immoral not to pay your dues in life.
If you earn it then pay the tax and get on with it.
21 Jun 2017 07:56:22
Schmid if they are exploiting the Govt then fine, that country should wear it but I believe their is plenty of shady stuff going on in the background hence why the Spanish prosecutor is getting real tough on these criminals.
I do not buy this 'I didn't know I just play football (Messi 2016)' because when you have all the money in the world and something sounds too good to be true then go pay for another opinion from a more ethical establishment.
21 Jun 2017 09:24:00
Why do you believe there is plenty of shady stuff going on in the background? You have as much idea about what is going on than the rest of us.
IF people are doing something dodgy then they should be taken to task for it and they are being at the moment, but I imagine most of them are advised a certain way to find legal loopholes, I guess it is just a question of ethics, in my opinion if what they are doing in legal they have nothing to answer.
I think the comparison to an ISA does stand if what they are doing is legal, if not then obviously it doesn't and as I said, we have no idea so I wouldn't judge, I know others will judge without all of the facts and that is their perogative.
21 Jun 2017 09:45:33
GDS, all of us can go get an ISA if we want to, not sure how many of us can route our earnings through shell companies in the Virgin Islands. My point isn't really about Jose, it's about the super rich who just want to be richer, they have strange values that are alien to me.
21 Jun 2017 09:53:26
GDS if there is no shady dealings going on then why has the Spanish prosecutor named Jose for alleged tax fraud? Do you think it is because they want their name in the British media? Maybe that's why Ronaldo, Messi, Di Maria and Falcao are under investigation also.
GDS2 if what they are doing is technically legal they would not be named in the media by the prosecutor. If the there was no case to be answered this would all be done behind closed doors.
How can you compare a capped savings account to tax evasion and corruption? Unfathomable.
21 Jun 2017 10:22:47
Isnt Jose (and the rest) being questioned over tax avoison, not evasion?
The difference being one is legal (but immoral) and the other illegal.
We have had numerous celebs strewn all over the papers for tax 'avoision' but as they broke no laws they haven't been punished.
So yes, i imagine Jose and the rest can all appear in the papers for this even if it turns out that no law has been broken.
21 Jun 2017 10:29:06
The fact these players are being prosecuted may point to the fact that there are shady dealings going on .
21 Jun 2017 10:35:12
He is being accused of failing to declare income. Which is fraudulent. Not immoral - fraudulent.
21 Jun 2017 10:37:54
Jred - It is nothing to do with illegality but just a media circus - it is mere means for entertainment for GDS and Co. That is why Messi was dragged through the courts and given a sentence. It was all for a laugh.
21 Jun 2017 00:33:18
Ed I cannot agree more. The thing that gets me is just because of who these individuals are they are being treated differently to others in society. The chief policeman who dropped charges against Alonso in his tax case is now being investigated for being far too lenient on him. Do you think the y would be lenient on you or me?
Everyone of us know of family and friends who rely on the NHS or public schooling. It is bad enough we have to fight the government not to cut funding never mind chasing upper tier rich folk to pay their way.
Then again when the people of Shettleston are voting Tory it is really difficult to make sense of anything that goes on in the world anymore.
21 Jun 2017 10:42:17
What players, companies and other wealthy individuals are doing re-tax is completely different than something like an ISA.
The government created and promoted ISA's as a means to facilitate moderate tax free savings. In other words, the government intended these savings to be exempt from taxation.
What rich people are doing, in cases like Ronaldo, is tax evasion and tax avoidance. This entails paying accountants to find legal loopholes (avoidance) and illegal schemes (evasion) to shield monies the government intended to be subject to taxation from taxation.
See the difference?
ISA - government creates a scheme to encourage ordinary people to save modestly.
Avoidance and Evasion - the richest people pay accounts to find legal and illegal ways to reduce their tax burden - i. e. very rich people and businesses use their wealth to avoid contributing to society.
21 Jun 2017 10:55:50
Sadly this is the capitalist world we all live in, something's needs to be done as everyone who complies pays for it otherwise. I wonder why there isn't enough public money to pay for public services etc when the richest often don't pay their dues!? The truth is this goes on at much higher levels, involving billions rather than millions of pounds - sadly those involved at that level will never face a witch hunt as these footballers face as they move in very influential circles. Maybe that's why the likes of Ronaldo get so mad, because they know full well the extent is well beyond what they have been caught out doing.
21 Jun 2017 11:10:13
I agree with what everybody is saying obviously, MAZE you are a condescending ****er at times but I know that so I have learnt to ignore it but hard to have a discussion on here sometimes without being made to sound stupid or talked down to, I've no idea what you are on about it being a means of entertainment.
As far as I can tell only Messi out of the ones named has been found guilty of anything, being charged doesn't mean you guilty of anything, innocent until proven guilty in this country as far as I am aware. If found guilty then thrown the book at them, but other than Messi we have no idea what's gone on with others or if it is legal or illegal that was my point. They can be named in the press either way as we have found in many cases recently.
At least it appears we both voted the same way in the election MAZE, maybe we would get on with things non football related.
21 Jun 2017 11:14:07
Lads the tax thing should start at the top. the royal family the richest in Britain don't pay taxes and they are worth trillions. the European parliament spend 50 mil. A day on expenses, private jets, champagne, etc.
Peoples tax money.
So for them reasons fair play to any man that can avoid paying a tax.
21 Jun 2017 11:17:19
Maze voted for mr fish finger.
21 Jun 2017 11:30:03
GDS there is no need to get your knickers in a twist. Your comment about an ISA and grade A fraud being similar was ridiculous hence my reply.
To say you believe there is nothing untoward to these tax evasion schemes just ludicrous.
I am glad you also voted SNP in the election. Warms my heart.
21 Jun 2017 12:13:05
Jose Stement denying that he has been contacted by any tax authority reference pending on intended prosecution.
And to confirm this a statement from the tx office "attested that he. was in compliance with all tax obligations" and Mourinho "did not declare income from use of his image rights in order to gain an illicit benefitâ€.
To little old me MAZE that says there is no issue with Jose and his tax contributions.
{Ed007's Note - I think you've misunderstood that mate, it's saying he didn't declare income from his image rights and that allowed him to gain an an illicit benefit - that's the accusation not an admonishment.}
21 Jun 2017 12:21:29
Evenzidaneratesscholes - you have just pretty much justified what I have said. So are you saying you agree with me now?
21 Jun 2017 12:28:04
agree with you MAZE - NEVER :-)
21 Jun 2017 12:27:18
Sorry Bond, i have misread it completely - my bad.
I read it as they haven't been in contact wit him recently. And Dan Roan (BBC guy - don't know how reliable he is) has shown this on twitter.
{Ed007's Note - Good job I'm here to keep you right then isn't it? :-D
21 Jun 2017 12:42:50
All hail MAZE -no thanks -he knows nothing about nothing ( better said in a West Country accent) 😆😆.
21 Jun 2017 12:47:22
Its a task that most have tried and most have failed :-)
21 Jun 2017 12:49:44
MAZE,
Show me where I said I believe there is nothing untoward and I will agree that I was ridiculous. For somebody who gets annoyed at people misquoting him all the time you do it an awful lot to other people.
My knickers aren't in a twist, read your messages back, they are massively condescending as per usual.
21 Jun 2017 15:04:39
Can we please keep political opinion off this site.
21 Jun 2017 15:11:06
There is a fine line between tax avoidance which is legal and evasion which is not. Every person has the right to legally reduce the amount of tax they have to pay. Being a top sportsman or top manager does not make such people tax experts. They rely on highly paid accountants and tax advisors.
My guess is that these advisors tell their clients that the schemes they use are legitimate. Richer people have a moral responsibility to help others in society who are less fortunate but I hate the politics of envy.
21 Jun 2017 15:12:43
For businesses like with with food hygiene ratings maybe there could be a government tax rating which could be mandatory to be displayed in shop windows and on their websites. If on a high street you knew dominos was not paying as much tax as the government thinks it should but pizza hut was some might choose to go their instead i know i would.
Maybe for footballers etc who use loopholes at the end of each tax year a couple page spread of the worst offenders might guilt trip some. Im sure the daily mail and sun would be all over it.
21 Jun 2017 17:23:26
If legal loopholes exist they should be and will be taken advantage of. Its up to the authorities to close these loopholes. Any body no matter what they earn should have a view to meeting their taxation requirements in full but they should be looking at every possible opportunity to legally minimise their debt burdon. Imo.
However if anybody steps over the line and uses means that are not legal then they should be punished.
There in my opinion is no moral obligation to pay more tax than you should pay after exhausting all legal opportunities to lesson the burdon no matter what you earn.