03 May 2017 15:46:06
Goo g back to the late 90s an argume t could have been made to include Becks scholes schmeichhel Irwin stam giggs Keane in any club squad in europe
I to the early 2000s rvn vds Neville scholes giggs rio Keane
And later that decade Ronaldo tevez Rooney vidic vds scholes hargreaves
How many of our current squad would get into the Madrid Barcelona Munich psg squads? And Chelsea or spurs teams?
Ddg pogba bailly and would make any of those squads and teams imo I'm not so sure too many others would. Possible argument for miki ibra and Herrera.
Our squad lags behind any other European powerhouse. For years 6 or 7 of our squad would have got into any squad in europe now imo less than half that number.
The 4 signings we made last summer are all top players we need another 4 or 5 of that quality this summer then we will have enough top quality players in our squad so that they will help develop the likes of Jessie, Rashford Herrera etc improve and make the step up required from being good players to top class players.
03 May 2017 16:28:57
It's not Jose it's the players .
Just because a team isn't playing well or individual players aren't playing great doesn't mean there bad players .
In the same way it doesn't mean the manager is a bad manager just because the team haven't clicked .
Madrid and juventus are good teams, Barcelona have a good front 3 gk back 4 and cm are nothing special .
Psg haven't been great are they even a powerhouse .
But we are not playing against them teams we are struggling in the Epl.
I can't remember many saying it was a poor squad in the summer .
In fact Imo it's the best squad we have had in years, definitely a better squad than moyes and lvg had, probably better than fergy won the title with .
Start of the season we had
Ibra miki martial rash mata linders rooney as attacking players .
Get martial miki rash playing top of there game our front 3 would look great add Ibra or mata at top of there game good set of players there . you could odd pogba to that
Probably only city can match that .
Cm we had herrera pogba bastion schnieders wig carrick . Herrera and pogba would get in to most teams in the world never mind the Epl.
Gk best in the world.
Tony v has been excellent
Bailly excellent
Rojo has played well good example of a player many said is not good enough showing that he can play .
Darmian blind decent squad players, smelling Jones decent when fit .
Over the season our best 11 Imo has been
Martial Ibra rash
Miki
Herrera pogba
Blind rojo bailly tony
Ddg
If a manager can get all them players playing well as a good team it would look very different .
Chelsea players looked average last season
Who would have wanted us to sign matic mosses cahill Luiz Pedro William Alonso?
Yet they are all first team players for a very good Chelsea team.
03 May 2017 16:31:11
Why compare us to Madrid Munich it's Swansea Burnley etc that we should be beating .
How about getting the best out of the players we have.
03 May 2017 16:38:07
That is my point Ken. We have had an embarrassment of riches at the club in the last 30 years. There is always going to be a time when the club will need an overhaul.
The youngsters are coming through again in Rashford, Perriera etc. The signings will also come. Becks, Giggs etc learned from Cantona, Bruce, Robbo - at the moment we have no mentors, no real leaders.
One thing Jose loves, is leaders. This will be sorted in the summer, no doubt.
03 May 2017 16:44:51
I personally think we might sign 6 or 7 in the summer. A striker a defensive midfielder and a left back are definitely needed. We may also have to buy a keeper if one leaves . Jose also likes to get his business done early so he will already be talking to them 😆😆.
03 May 2017 16:54:50
I'm sure it will James
Jred the managers have all tried to get more from the majority of the squad.
That's my point they are doing as well as most of them ever have done there is no more to get out of some of them. Blind is here 3 years has done ok probably better than he ever has done. Same for fellaini Darmian shaw too Jones smalling young but that's not going to win the league if we don't add more quality we can spend another 30 years trying to get more from these guys but they won't give you more because it's not in them. They will never be better than 3rd 4th 5th place players.
Sure a couple will survive the cull and when surrounded with better quality they will get better but surround them with too many of their own type and they stagnate.
Jred you preach support all the players and you preach support the coach but sometimes changes need to be made. None of these players are bad people or bad players but they are not winners and there is far too much mediocrity in our squad.
I compare to the European teams as that's were we also need to compete. And it shows how far we are behind European heavyweights.
I think psg are a powerhouse as they compete for top players pay top cash and are in the cl every season win or compete to win their league.
03 May 2017 16:57:18
I wouldn't have Pogba down as getting in Barcelona or RM's teams, he's been poor for us.
The only player we have who would break their first 11 is DDG.
03 May 2017 17:04:56
I agree wazza that's why I said squad although i do t think pogba would be too far from their starting line up. He would excel with that Better quality around him.
03 May 2017 17:07:18
De Gea would get into the Madrid team.
And Pogba would 100% get into Barca's team. They are clearly lacking a playmaking midfielder, with Iniesta aging and Gomez not good enough.
Bailly would also get into both team's squads.
03 May 2017 17:13:51
Jred of that amazing squad you speak of at the beginning of the season the manager has already got rid of 3of them as they were not fit for purpose. Many more will follow those 3 out the door the squad lacks quality and if you tho k a front li e of an 19yo a 20yo with less than 50 top flight games between them and a 35yo you have been unhappy with all season is top class then you are very inconsistent as you wanted ibra out of the team all season you want rash to play as a centre forward and martial to play centre forward so now you say they are best out wide and only city can match that 3? Kane Erickson son alli at spurs . Costa hazard and Pedro at chelsea.
No we are lightyears behind in quality and we need better players.
03 May 2017 17:15:17
Fair point well made rohan.
03 May 2017 17:19:35
2 very good posts Ken.
I completely agree with both. Interesting points that you make.
I'm not entirely sure, DDG aside that any of the others would be nailed on to start in 1 of the top European sides.
It's either, they're not good to start off with or they are just not playing well enough at the moment. I think it's a mixture of both.
Pogba, herrera, Bailly, miki, rash, martial etc have all got the goods, they just have to be more consistent and start working harder together to compete for leagues/ champions leagues. It will take a bit of time and the addition of more quality to truly bring out the best in those players.
Jred, I read the OP and thought, what a good point, we seem to have limited amount of players that would make the argument of getting into one of the top European sides where as in yester year throughout the great sides that we had, many of the named individuals would have easily made it.
But again, you have lost sight of the original point being made and try once again to be an argumentative so and so just for the sake of it. Were any of these players good enough to make the top teams in Europe before they were at utd?
Maybe it's because Ken posted and made a good point.
03 May 2017 17:38:51
Ken
Everybody was happy with the squad in the summer .
Of the 3 Jose got rid off you wanted schnieders and bastion in the team .
You told us fellaini would be sold .
Rash martial Ibra mata miki on paper are as good as anything in the league . Unfortunately we haven't got them playing like it .
I would take a midfield 3 of herrera pogba and miki all day.
Poch and conte on the other hand really are getting the best out of there players .
Like I said, the same people who where saying in the summer this is a very good squad are now saying the same players aren't good enough .
We are not light-years behind spurs and Chelsea. Jesus Chelsea spent most of last season in the bottom half .
First of it was the players are tired . Are they tired or not good enough .
We where unlucky because we hit the post a lot .
We would be top of the league if we had took our chances .
It's because the other gk had a great team .
Maybe the truth is for a variety of reasons the manager and the squad haven't been quite as good as should of and we have underperformed this season . Especially when you look at our resource, manager and playing staff.
If we start next season with
Ddg bailly tony rojo
Herrera pogba miki
Rash martial
9 players in the starting 11 from this season I would have no issue .
Add another attacking player and a lb if shaw doesn't work out and that's a very strong 11 .
If the manager can get them playing well
It was refreshing to see pep come out and say " I need to do better "
03 May 2017 17:53:29
Angle
How many Monaco players would you have wanted or would of got into the top European teams in the summer?
Suddenly all them same players are world beaters .
03 May 2017 18:19:19
Jred you say on paper that rash martial ibra miki mata on paper are as good ad anything in the league.
But that's simply not true.
Costa hazard Pedro William have all won league titles and have done better and have more ok experience than our players
Alli Kane Erickson and son are a better 4 with goals assists and penetration
Sane sterling aguero and jesus
have better stats and penetration
So I'm afraid on paper we are not as good and have not been as good on grass either.
I never called for morgan to be a regular he was a mistake signing. I would have put bastion in before fellaini all day but the manager sees it different
I suspect he will not do all I want this summer either but I have to be accepting of that as he is the manager. But I do know he will do what he believes is best and he will live or die on the decisions he makes.
I just hope he is as clinical and ruthless as sir Alex In his decision making. Good players will leave the club this summer they may well do well elsewhere but that's life.
03 May 2017 18:46:45
jred, surely that is the aim of the game. Jose probably looked at the squad at the start of the season and thought it would be strong enough to compete. We are now at the tail end of the season and it's evident that some players have not performed or are not good enough.
It's now down to the manager to get rid of them players and bring in more quality.
03 May 2017 18:47:18
Ken
Just because you have won a league title doesn't mean your a good player.
You keep posting this, what a strange way to judge a player .
Phil neal is Liverpools most decorated player .
In fact in English football only giggs has won more .
He wasn't that good .
Jose will buy and sell that's what managers do .
Sir Alex was ruthless but he also got the best out his squad and players .
Let's be honest he won the Epl bt 11 points with a worse squad than this.
03 May 2017 18:50:24
Angle by the way I'm not being argumentative I've said from day one I though this was a good squad .
And like a lot of other people I was very happy with the manager and squad in the summer.
Still am to be honest I don't think we are that far away .
03 May 2017 19:02:27
2toms
Surly the name of the game is to get the best out of the squad as well as buying.
How good a team and how good a squad would the might madrid or Barcelona look with out Messi and Ronaldo?
Could martial rash or miki play for madrid? If benzema and isco can I would say so .
Could pogba herrera play along side modric and kroos, I would think so
.
If caverhal can play rb could tony v.
Barcelona -any of our defenders and midfielders could play in that team .
We have Imo good players we haven't got a good team yet .
I named 9 players above add 2 more that make it click and we could a very good team .
Take Ronaldo out of Madrid and put him in our team I honestly think we would beat them .
Players look good in a team that playing well.
03 May 2017 19:12:49
I don't think our first team is any worse than Chelsea's. And our squad is much better.
03 May 2017 19:13:02
So you're saying Fellaini, a 35 yr old Carrick and Jones would walk into those teams?
Of course the aim is to get the best out of your players but Jose will need to buy more quality to compete in the league and if we make it, champions league. 4 or 5 windows have been wasted buying mediocre players.
I'm not saying a complete overhaul, but we certainly need 4 or 5 top players to improve this squad.
03 May 2017 19:17:41
Using weekday a player has won is a strange way to judge a player?
Eh no it's not. It's not the only criteria I use but it's of barometer.
Phil Neal was a very good right back and excellent penalty taker. No player wins 11 titles workout being very good as well as 3 european cups to suggest otherwise is pretty ignorant
There are players who have not won a great deal that are very good players but not many In the hall of fame.
03 May 2017 19:27:54
He wasn't that good Ken in fact there where better fullbacks who have won nothing
Mascherano is not a great cb but he was part of a great Barcelona team that won everything .
2 Tom's who mentioned fellaini and carrick?
03 May 2017 19:56:09
Barcelona - any of our midfielders or defenders could play in that team.
03 May 2017 20:12:13
2toms.
Yer carrick could sit in that midfield could play the busquets role . with inesta and rakatic either side neymar suarez and Messi in front.
They get a lot of the ball Barcelona lot of possession carrick could do a job in that team in that league .
so could the wig like he does for Belgium.
If gomes can them 2 can.
Think both will only be squad players for united next season
I take it up agree with everything else.
03 May 2017 18:07:45
Angle
Yer I think rash and martial would do well in any team to be honest .
So would miki herrera pogba .
Ddg of course
Bailly definitely
Tony I think would, Jose has said he is one of the best rb in Europe .
But also it's a team game not an individual one, united with Scholes giggs etc where not a top European teams we made the step up with Cole and Yorke.
Probably the best partnership in Europe not the best 2 strikers .
Madrid Imo are the best team in Europe? Would benzema isco and Co look quite as good with out Ronaldo.
Would casimero look as good with out kross and modric? In fact many have argued kross would be good in our cm.
If benzema starts every week for madrid could rash and martial not?
It's a team game not an individual one.
03 May 2017 20:31:21
I'm afraid I don't agree with everything else. I think we need more quality in our squad if we are to compete in the league and in Europe.
Jose got in quality players in last summer, I'm hoping he does the same this summer.
I can't see how we can just keep plugging away with the same players who haven't produced to date. Like I've said previously, I don't think a complete squad overhaul. Just replace some of the players who for me are not top quality.
If that means trying to nick a few names from this exciting Monaco team then so be it.
03 May 2017 20:47:48
2toms
That will be the exciting Monaco team that less than a season ago weren't that good but who players have suddenly become world class.
Nobody said don't buy any players, everything in the league will add to there squad.
03 May 2017 20:54:43
That's them mate. Fabinho, Mbappe, Bernardo Silva and Mendy would all improve our squad.
03 May 2017 21:07:38
Getting shown how to do it by juventus .
Decent players tho just like many of ours.
03 May 2017 21:09:52
You missed Falcao out.
03 May 2017 21:37:15
Never go back to an old lover jred, they can keep Falcao. Although he did help to dump both City and Dortmund out of the CL.
03 May 2017 22:04:52
Doesn't look like the same player that was at united and Chelsea. Been great this season tho .
Monaco well beat today.
03 May 2017 22:27:00
Our team is nowhere near good enough and certainly not as good at Chelsea's first 11. Our squad has a good level but not brilliant. Fact is, watching Real you realize how far away we are from challenging domestically let alone in Europe.
It is depressingly sad to see how much money has been wasted on schweni Jones smalling Darmian blind schneiderlin Shaw depay Fellaini di Maria. It seems that for every 5 players we buy, only one sort of makes it. What has happened to our scouting system? Why can spurs unearth Alli walker rose, why can city buy Aguero Silva and de bruyne for the price of Pogba? Why can Chelsea buy fabregas hazard and costa for less than £100m.
Our buying and scouting policies have been shambolic for too long. The other clubs see us coming and add a couple of 00 on the price.
Look at what Juve have achieved.
I know Beast gets a load of stick bit he's absolutely right in his views. We're staring mediocrity in the face and we used to laugh at the Scousers but I'm afraid our club is in the same state as we were 4 years ago. No improvement whatsoever.