24 Apr 2017 20:01:36
Just want to find out peoples take on this 'challenge' set by Jose Mourinho to Phil Jones and Chris Smalling. I am trying to second guess his motive and I am of the opinion he will ditch both if they do not make themselves available before their expected return date which if they are injured is near impossible and most likely will be his excuse of selling them in the summer.
24 Apr 2017 21:59:36
Jose has challenged the players desire and commitment. He is being fair as he has done it with Shaw, Martial, Rashford, and possibly Darmian. Now it is the turn of Jones and Smalling.
Their injury records are not good.
If they can't get fit quickly then Jose will get rid as what is the point in keeping them.
Smalling lacks concentration and composure on the ball. He is not United class.
Jones is a better player but always injured.
Jose requires 100% commitment from his players which is no different to Fergie. Just that his style is slightly different.
We are heading in the right direction and Jose is a winner so I am right behind him.
His honesty is refreshing.
24 Apr 2017 23:11:01
I think Jose feels they are soft players and tbh I tend to agree.
25 Apr 2017 03:04:39
Hoggy it is one thing to expect full commitment from your players on field or during training but i have never heard of anyone getting fit quickly through commitment, its an injury it takes time to heal, what you are talking is BS.
25 Apr 2017 03:30:04
I think someone said below it's all Jose's mind games. But look how it turned out for a few of them. I think it is a good way to wake them up. If you can't push yourself how you push your opponents?
25 Apr 2017 07:30:05
Agree with mourinho on this. They're both injury ridden and too soft. And to be honest, they're both bang on average. The sooner we sell them the better. That is if anyone will bid for them.
25 Apr 2017 07:31:18
problem with that 666 is when you do it one time too many you get chelsea and madrid fiascos on your hand as players get tired of getting walloped in media and start revolting.
25 Apr 2017 08:01:31
We had 2 acl Injures in the last game, when was the last time you saw that .
Most team rest players when they are tired .
The medical team will be fully aware that the players are fatigued and in the red zone .
Jose has described pogba as dead, yet he is still playing 90 minutes I probably will do until the lad has an injury.
{Ed001's Note - red zone is crap, if they trained harder they would increase their fitness and not be in the 'red zone'. West Brom are one of the hardest training teams in the Prem, how many injuries have they suffered this season? Virtually none. Chelsea train harder than most under Conte, again very few injuries. Leicester train far harder, again they rarely suffer injuries. Then you look at Arsenal, Wenger is one of the managers who believes in the red zone bollox, his players are always picking up 'fatigue' based injuries simply because they are not fit enough, due to not being pushed hard enough in training.}
25 Apr 2017 08:10:13
Jones and Smalling strike me as '2 pints - calling in sick tomorrow with hangover' kind of guys, although it would be a "granny's had a fall" excuse given. Cut them loose, you need 10 pinter's in my view that 'hair of a dog' it on their lunch break and still perform better than the feeble 2 pint kind of guys!
25 Apr 2017 09:45:01
CSM yes in a way but I feel Jose is helping the boys to become men. Be responsible to do their job as they are paid super highly for what they do. Definitely more than the average Joe.
But if they just wimp a bit and start thinking they're not fit to play and not go an extra mile then they are not helping their teammates. I can understand Shaw as he had a really unplayable injury. But Jones and Smalling, I just think they are gutless if they don't give it their best due to a small injury. If we have a big team of solid player fine we can let them rest or recuperate. But look at Herrera and Lingard. They are playing their arse out every game and am sure they get hurt here and there. BUT they are still giving it their best. Moral of the story Smalling and Jones are just gone.
25 Apr 2017 10:44:05
666 i am all for getting rid of them, i don't think jones will ever be injury free or smalling will ever be good enough, but we had just won against burnley, bailly had played well, no reporter was asking about smalling or jones and there was no reason to have a public potshot at them, mourinho since his madrid days seems to enjoy throwing people under the bus for no apparent reason and that is what has come back and bit him in his ass at madrid and chelsea, he needs to reduce his antics or there is a chance utd players might follow suit in future.
25 Apr 2017 12:02:29
The harder you train the deeper your red zone and the further you can go into the black . But every player has a limit .
The fittest athletes in the world get fatigued and manage there training schedules around this .
25 Apr 2017 12:02:29
The harder you train the deeper your red zone and the further you can go into the black . But every player has a limit .
The fittest athletes in the world get fatigued and manage there training schedules around this .
{Ed001's Note - that isn't the problem I was referring to. It is that too many managers are resting players in training the moment they hit the red zone. As for Pogba, hasn't he just come back from an injury break? So he would have had a bit of a rest then. Either way, if the players are tired then it is purely down to a lack of fitness, as there are not enough games in a season to properly fatigue them, so they are not recovering properly or not training properly. In most cases I would suggest it is too much time down a pub or club rather than resting that is the problem, but I am not sure that is the case with Pogba. It is more likely, which seems very much the case with the amount of injuries United have, that they are not managing the recuperation well enough.
During this kind of run of games last season, for instance, Leicester players were not training, just doing recovery work the day after games, then getting a day off to rest. It has always been an issue that a meticulous manager such as Mourinho, who works so hard on getting players prepared for the next game with specific gameplans to stop the opposition, does not have the time to give them a rest and work on his plans. So they often don't get the rest they need but because he wants to do sessions ready for the next game. That is why it can be an advantage to play a set way week in, week out, as you can then afford to rest players properly between games, even when the games are coming thick and fast.}
25 Apr 2017 12:15:50
You're bang on the money ed001. Can never get over how players get so tired or are in the 'red zone'
{Ed001's Note - they get plenty of breaks during a season, if the clubs are not using them correctly, then they have no excuse to moan when players are tired. Preseason is the main problem, players no longer cover the mileage running they once did, correctly in my opinion, but they are not making up for the lack of endurance work with other exercise, so the basic endurance levels are not high enough. You only have to look around the Prem clubs, there are certain players that are very rarely injured, yet they tend to be the ones that are covering the distance and working the hardest on the pitch. Alexis Sanchez, for instance, Roberto Firmino, N'Golo Kante etc. Those players give 100% every week on the pitch, yet they have to be forced to take time off. How often do they look tired and sluggish on the pitch? Normally it is those same players adding all the energy to a performance, while the players that have done less go down with cramp etc.}
25 Apr 2017 12:46:48
Ed
To be honest footballers in the grand scheme of things aren't that fit compered to any indurance athlete. To be fair they don't have to be .
they cover 11 km during 90 minutes with a rest in between .
I think it is a good point you make about recovery, rest days are just as important as training .
As for pogba the lad looked shattered, for what ever reason but you can't just keep pushing players beyond there limits, even if there limits aren't as high as they should be .
At the same time it seems many are to careful when it comes to pushing themselves.
Same with injuries, you don't need to be 100% to play, truth is your rarely pain free but at the same time some injuries need time .
Strurridge always strikes me as a player who has to be a 100% someone like b Robson was probably the opposite although playing injured has taken it toll on robbo
As for getting injections as mentioned in a post above I've lost count of the amount of people who's careers where cut short doing that .
{Ed001's Note - I wouldn't want my players to get injections, and Robson's career and injuries were as much down to his drinking and lack of recovery work as anything else. As for Sturridge, that is just public perception, he picks up injuries that you can't just play through. He played through plenty in 13/14 season, when they were knocks, rather than ones that just get made worse by playing through them. His current injury problems stem from being pushed too hard and being trained incorrectly, against the advice of Liverpool's physios and coaching staff, by England under Roy Hodgson. Hodgson must be so pleased with himself to have destroyed a true pro's career the way he has done out of pure spite. It really does come down to the injury itself.
Pogba did look shattered, but he will have had 3 days to recuperate, if that is not enough then the club need to look at the way they are operating and the way he is conducting himself in his spare time.}
25 Apr 2017 13:21:42
I think that's a bit harsh on Robson a lot of his injuries where impact and then exasperated by being patched up given an injection and rolled back out . if sturridge was mishandled there is an argument Robson was .
Fair point about his lifestyle tho.
Sturridge seems to have had Injures through out his career, some players do .
And like you say some plays get Injured for a variety of reasons
Angle
Pogba looks tired to me Jose described him as dead.
{Ed001's Note - there is nothing harsh about it, Robson is a nice guy, I have met him many times, but his drinking was a major factor in all the impact injuries not recovering. I have not met many who could pack away the drinks like he could mate. Fergie never managed to sort that out, though he did try. If he had just lived like a professional athlete, rather than a lad on the lash, he would have suffered far less.}
25 Apr 2017 13:42:49
I now Robson myself pal or did, he use to get me tickets in my younger days same goes for whiteside .
And like a lot at the time they had a life style that would be frowned upon now in fact even by the late 80s it was considered out of order .
But playing Injured and taken jabs has quite clearly taken its toll even more so with whiteside although his lifestyle has also had a big affect.
But going back to the op I don't think playing injured is a good idea or playing when in the south called red zone. Although I completely agree players training hard and correctly shouldn't really reach that red zone, they should be fit enough to get through a season . Unless returning from injury or something like that.
25 Apr 2017 14:21:04
I tend to look outside of football ed. We have the GAA in ireland mate, the physical side of that is incredible, not to mention the training schedules, you play for your home team and your county and on top of that they all have full time jobs. So I rarely sympathise with footballers or managers who bemoan the fixture list.
I recall a very well respected physician in ireland German Hartmann who has worked with many professio al athletes from rugby players to footballers and marathon runners. And he said the 2 fittest athletes he ever worked with were GAA players Sean Og Hailpin and Henry Shefflin. They always seemed to be in prime physical condition.
I have never bought into this red zone. I'd say to players like pogba who is 'dead'. On a couple of hundred grand a week, you should get fitter pal :)
{Ed001's Note - exactly, I used to train with endurance athletes and the work they did was incredible. All of them also managed to do full time jobs and then at weekends go and do stuff like swimming the English Channel etc. Footballers have life too easy now from an early age.}
25 Apr 2017 15:15:36
The simple fact is footballers in the main are pampered too much, told how they should be feeling by the fickle media and often (like most people) will latch onto any excuse to explain away their fatigue/ poor performances.
You keep telling people they are an egg, often they will start thinking they are an egg.
It always amazes me watching pre-game warm-ups, or warm-ups of substitutes, it's not ideal preparation in my eyes and the lethargy is contagious. Our players cover the least ground as well in games, fitness is clearly a problem and it's easily rectified if you don't mind cracking a few eggs.