19 Apr 2017 13:20:25
I think people myself included​ have a tendency to look at our team and try and fit potential new players in. That's not really how it works though. Managers don't decide to play a certain formation and buy players to fit that way of playing. Or at least I hope they don't. What if the new players don't fit in well or the current ones don't adjust to the new formation.
It screams of putting all your eggs in one basket.
Surely managers look at the squad as a whole and asks what is missing, where is there a gap in skill set, or a lack of competition.
Most of us feel that we are likely to see several new players in defence. Probably a CB and maybe a couple of full backs. This isn't based on a lack of players capable of playing those roles but due to a lack quality or a lack of skills the manager wants in those areas. For example we have struggled in the full back area due to the players we have there lacking the required skills to play the role Jose wants. Blind and Darmian lack pace and attacking intent. Shaw has struggled with several different issues.
We have struggled at CB again not with numbers but with players having the quality to play how Jose wants consistently.
In midfield we have several options, but what the squad is missing is a true destructive defensive midfielder. So that looks like the kind of midfielder we could look towards.
Further forward we have heard Jose say we are lacking a "killer". That stone code player who puts away the important chances that turn loses into draws and draws into wins. We also lack a little pace, beyond Rashford and Martial we lack real pace. Although he may also want someone who can hold the ball up if Zlatan leaves.
19 Apr 2017 14:29:25
Shaps I think your right about the manager thing.
Fans tend to pick there favourite players and come up with a formation and scenario that fits them in.
19 Apr 2017 14:48:46
Fair point Shappy. Attacking players especially relate to what formation we would play. I will use Griezmann as an example. His best position would be playing off of the #9, no matter if it is Zlatan or a more mobile player like Rashford. But that would dictate Pogba and Herrera as a two man midfield. My point being that Griezmann fits a 4-2-3-1 most naturally, which dictates the roles of other players. Forcing Griezmann into a 4-3-3 means he must be a #9 or a winger, neither are naturally his best position.
19 Apr 2017 16:32:56
Zidaniel, Greizmann has played in a 433, 4231, 4411, 442, 4141, 343, 3232 and a 3412.
And that is in the last 18 months, so I'm pretty sure signing him wouldn't resign us to playing just 4231.
When we signed Pogba everyone mentioned that he plays best on the left of a midfield three so we would look to play 433 even though people were basing that judgement on when he played at Juventus who during Pogba's time there more often than not played 352, or variants of.
Yet that isn't what we have done. So why would flawed logic work now?
We could play 352, Greizmann playing in a free role with a central striker. Pogba could play in a midfield three with Herrera and a new DM and the could see a new CB play with Bailey and Rojo with new full backs providing the width.
Or we could see one of the other million different options.
The point of my post is to not worry how a player fits in a formation, but whether that player fullfills a gap in our squad.
Does Greizmann add something new to our attack, does he add a skill set we currently lack, and does he create a new option we currently lack?
If he does and he then does sign then we will find out how he fits into the team next season.
Personally I don't think Greizmann is a good fit, obviously​ he is a very good player, but he likes to play in the same spaces as many of our current players. He likes to look for the space between oppositions defence and midfield looking for gaps of space, currently we have Zlatan, Pogba, Mata, Mkhitaryan, Martial, Lingard, Rashford and Rooney.
Greizmann for me is a similar player to Rooney, who doesn't get much better time not because he isn't good enough (he has declined but is still as good an option as anyone else in our squad) but because he doesn't fit into the managers plans/ ideas. So signing a player with a similar skill set seems a little odd to me.
{Ed004's Note - I disagree completely on your end bit tbh. Does he add something new to us? He would add so much more to us. Currently I can only think of Rashford and lingard who run behind the opposition, he's quicker than each of our attacking options bar Martial and Rashford, he's probably more clinical than all of our attacking options, he doesn't go missing in games like most of our options, he's more creative than them all bar maybe Mkhitarian, he's probably a better set piece taker than everyone in our squad. Ultimately he's a game changer and a superior version of Mata.
Secondly, we started the season with Rooney playing off Ibrahimovic and it's only due to how poor he was that he now doesn't play there anymore, we have then tried all of mata, Mkhitarian, martial (boro game), Rashford and lingard off the front man and not one has done it convincingly enough to take on the mantel.}
19 Apr 2017 16:56:22
Griezmann still has to come over here and do it, I think he is a similar player to miki if miki can show the form he displayed in previous leagues.
19 Apr 2017 17:23:00
On last nights showing he would be a fantastic addition.
His movement is exceptional and he worked non stop from the 1st whistle to the last. He was tracking back and putting in a real shift defensively whilst finding pockets of space all over the pitch when attacking.
I think he would he would give us a new dimension and if there is a possibility that we can sign him I would go all out for him.
{Ed004's Note - I agree}
19 Apr 2017 18:35:44
For me greizman is currently a world class player. In that he is one of the top players over a fairly sustained period 3 seasons at the very highest level. Comfortable in a variety of attacking positions. Really quick. Great finisher. Scores all types of goals. Can dribble really good in the air.
If we can sign him we absolutely should. He is better than any of our current options as a ten / second striker or wide player in a front 3.
The fee is huge. But that's the way it is.
19 Apr 2017 19:09:24
Shappy, I agree with Griezmann's versatility. Looking again at my post, it comes across too narrow. But I think Griezmann is way better than Rooney is right now. Rooney is simply too slow now, not the player he once was. Griezmann is world class now, with critical things that we need, touch, movement, and above all finishing.
19 Apr 2017 21:38:58
Griezmann is most definitely a cut above every attacking player we have. Proven world class for atletico and France. Outside of Messi and ronaldo, I can't think of any other player that comes close.
He would add so many more dimensions and options to our game. World class.
19 Apr 2017 22:45:58
Agree with most of that angel. I would put Neymar Bale dybala sanchez in the same bracket. They make an impact in most games they play. They get bums off seats they do most of the simple things really well and then do things that only very few can do and do it regularly. They all are great team players and all versatile but are all capable of producing match changing moments all on their own. It's hard to say even which is their most devastating position across the front line.
For me it's not about a fashionable name it's about increasing the quality of our squad. It's about quality over quantity. If the opportunity arises to sign one of the above and we can make it happen financially then we should. We have lacked goals not been clinical enough. All of the above players can improve that.
19 Apr 2017 22:53:37
I have been on this site a while. Shappy does not care for the big names and instead prefers the more obscure picks.
Griezmann would be a phenomenal signing.
19 Apr 2017 23:16:31
Greizman is the same as Rooney! Am I watching the same players? Greizman is nothing like Rooney. For a start, he's half the weight and twice the speed. He's more of a touch and go player while Rooney has always wanted to hog the ball.
They're like chalk and cheese.
20 Apr 2017 03:57:07
I wonder which one is CHEESE 😂.
20 Apr 2017 08:02:11
Same bracket as pogba then who was going to be the best player in the world last summer?
Very good player griezmann but nothing is a sure thing.
20 Apr 2017 10:12:15
Clearly Rooney and Greizmann are at different stages of their careers, Greizmann obviously being at his peak and Rooney on the decline.
But Rooney at his peak played in a very similar way to Greizmann now. Both could play wide or as a main striker but neither are at their best in those positions. Both play their best football in a free role just off the main striker, both are creative strikers as likely to make an assist as score themselves. Both very hard working and can be discribed as "team players".
I think they are very similar players, just at different stages of their career. Greizmann being younger and not having suffered serious injury hasn't lost his pace like Rooney has.
Fresh, I have no issue with big name players. I don't get caught up by the media Flaff and judge a player on what I see from them.
When it comes to who we buy, I would rather we sign players who perfectly fit what we need or as close too as possible. Quite often that isn't the latest media darling.
Several years ago I pointed out Greizmann as a possible player we should sign, but that was when the team was set up around Rooney who had started his decline. So I thought Greizmann was a perfect option to bring in to rotate with Rooney and eventually replace him. Since then the club has had two managers who have slowly changed Rooney's role within the team and then phased him out entirely. Our team is no longer built around Wayne, so spending a massive amount of money on a player who is very similar to Rooney in his peak seems more like a backward step.
Considering Greizmann requires a main striker to play off. Someone to hold the ball up and draw defenders in to create space for Greizmann to play in. Currently Zlatan is ideal, but he may not be here next year, and certainly won't the year after.
Our team still lacks quality in the full back position, a long term partner for Bailey and a replacement for Carrick. If Zlatan leaves then to get the best out of Greizmann then a replacement would need to be sought.
Which means 5/ 6 players depending on Zlatan. With the cost of a player like Greizmann I don't think it would be possible to sign the players we need to strengthen our weakest areas.
Greizmann plays his best football playing in the same areas as Mata, Mkhitaryan, Lingard, Rooney and Pereira. Yes he is clearly better than all of them, but it is not an area we are weak. There are 90m worth of players in our squad who play in that area and two home grown players.
For me it's a case of strengthening the areas we need to before we look at areas where we don't need to but it would be nice.
{Ed001's Note - you are seriously comparing Rooney with Griezmann in style of play? I despair if you think that the fat lad who throws his weight about is the same as the little lad who uses his pace in style of play. I am exaggerating the two styles of play to make a point before anyone starts bitching! That is the basics of their style of play, which you have to look at as the basis of the comparison. They are not the same. Griezmann has played some of his best football as a pointman feeding on balls over the top, as well as playing deeper. Not sure why you feel he is not at his best up top. Griezmann uses intelligence in his play, Rooney never had that, which is why he has faded so quickly when his legs went. He was all action, non-stop running and workrate, which made up for the lack of thought. Griezmann is more thoughtful, he is not going to chase around mindlessly after the ball or make runs for the sake of it.}
20 Apr 2017 16:28:52
Thanks Ed 001 you are not alone.
{Ed001's Note - cheers for that, I did wonder as Ed004 came up with a few points of similarity. They are both male, human (debatable in Rooney's case) and both are professional footballers. So I was beginning to see Shappy's point....}