19 Apr 2017 10:58:38
Watching that Real v Bayern game last night If there is any chance at all of us getting Toni Kroos as I believe ed002 has suggested, we should go all out to make it happen. His passing range is by far the best I've seen since Xavi in his prime. I truley believe with him in our midfield we would turn these frustrating draws into wins. He can pick that final pass out that has been missing in our team for 4-5 seasons. A midfield 3 of Kroos, Herrera and Pogba would be fantastic.
{Ed004's Note - I wouldn't want Kroos though if it meant losing De Gea. I think we will find it very hard and expensive to replace De Gea}
19 Apr 2017 11:07:33
No I totally agree mate. My gut feeling is that De Gea will eventually go to Madrid, it has the same feel as the Fabregas to Barca, Ronaldo to Real to it for me. Ideally keep De Gea but make Kroos our priority midfield target in the summer. I haven't seen much of Real recently to be fair but last night he was outstanding with his passing.
19 Apr 2017 11:11:12
Have to agree. Kroos would transform our midfield. Ed do you think it would have a bigger impact losing De Gea and gaining Kroos compared to keeping De Gea and not getting Kroos? For me De Gea is the best keeper in the world but I think we gain slightly more by getting Kroos and replacing De Gea with Handanovic, Leno or Oblak. As you say it would be expensive to replace him though.
19 Apr 2017 11:29:45
Oscar or hazard at Chelsea, ozil madrid, sniejder at inter deco at Porto I think Jose will stick with a 10 and 4231 next season .
Pogba hasn't played many games on the left this season looks like he has been bought to play cm .
If griezmann is really our top target are we really going to stick him out wide or in his best position working of the striker.
{Ed004's Note - In response to the previous post I would only really want Oblak from that list and he's going to be very expensive. And I don't think Kroos would suit a 4231 with Pogba. So I would prefer a more defensive minded midfielder. If Griezmann comes he can play centrally or wide right so we would be able to play either Mkhitarian or Mata in the other position. Mkhitarian and Griezmann would give us the tactical flexibility to switch mid game to a 433.}
19 Apr 2017 11:56:36
Ed
It that likely to happen or just fitting players we like in to a formation we like .
Does Jose not normally play a 4231 .
Do you really see him moving pogba to the left side? It looks to me as if pogba was bought to play the cm role the same he plays for France. He has played either cm or a 10 this season under jose left-sided only 1 or twice .
Griezmann is a top player but he is at his best playing the 10 or a free role that's what he does for AM and France why stick him on the rw.
Kross could do the same job Alonso did for madrid under jose.
{Ed004's Note - If we lineup in a 4231 my three behind the striker would be Mkhitarian (right side), Griezmann (crntal) and Martial (left). However, both Griezmann and Mkhitarian have played in each other's position so during the game it would be easy to tell Mkhitarian to play centrally and vice versa. My only worry of signing Kroos would be that a midfield 2 of Pogba and Kroos seems quite light and doesn't offer much defensive protection to the back 4. Jose seems to give one of the midfield 2 a bit of freedom to join the attack and get forward (Fabregas, Modric etc) which would suit Pogba but I'm not sure Kroos could cover for him}
19 Apr 2017 12:23:02
I think we are more likely to see Jose play 4231 than 433. Kroos probably suits a 433 more because he is not the most athletic CM. However, very much like Carrick the game runs through Kroos and he is very intelligent. He's not going to put in hard challenges but he reads the game very well.
For 4231 to work Pogba needs to be disciplined in holding his position as the number 10 will push on and expecting 1 player to cover the whole of the midfield is too much (unless your N'Golo Kante) Kroos wouldn't be great defensively in that system. However, I'd like to see a 433 with Pogba, Kroos and Herrera with Mkhitaryan, Griezmann and either Zlatan or a similar to type of striker through the middle.
It will be interesting to see what kind of CM we go for this summer as it'll probably dictate the type of forward we go for and where Pogba, Mkhitaryan will play next year.
{Ed004's Note - I agree whoever we go for in midfield will dictate what we do with our forward options. It'll be a very interesting summer. I'm content with our midfield options but just think we lack a defensive presence with Carrick ageing.}
19 Apr 2017 12:34:36
Why don't we just compromise and sign Fabinho and Kroos?!
{Ed004's Note - That seems like the only reasonable alternative}
19 Apr 2017 12:53:27
Why play Kroos a a dm it's not his best position and he does not play there for Madrid and never has. He is not a dm.
19 Apr 2017 13:15:43
I wouldn't want to sign him to play dm. With a midfield 3 of Pogba Herrera and Kroos, you'd have plenty of cover in both attacking and defensive play. All 3 are capable of pushing forward and covering the back 4. Maybe not Kroos so much but he does sit deep and control games. In Herrera and Pogba you have 2 very good midfielders who can perform box to box duties.
{Ed004's Note - Kroos has played as the deepest midfielder before and it ended up in Zidane buying Casemiro. I don't think playing as the deepest midfielder suits either Herrera or Pogba either}
19 Apr 2017 13:23:27
Kroos can play in the middle of a flat 3 with Herrera to the right and Pogba to the left. Having the athleticism of Valencia, Shaw, Bailly etc as well as the running of Herrera and Pogba would be Kroos would be well covered in this system.
At home against weaker teams he can play in a midfield 2 with a number 10 ahead if required. We should be controlling those games anyway.
{Ed004's Note - I just can't see how we could play Kroos, Pogba and Herrera against the top teams I don't think any of those players except Herrera would pick up runners and we would be light in midfield}
19 Apr 2017 13:44:49
Correct Ed. Kroos offers nothing defensively and would be totally exposed. However if he had someone sitting behind him like he has with casimero at Madrid then he can dictate play. Unless we sign a dedicated cdm such as kante fabhino bakayoko then Kroos would be a waste. I would like to see Jose picking 3 from 4 out of fabhino Kroos herrera and pogba. In some games we might get away without the cdm but in Europe or against the top 6 or 8 teams herrera Kroos pogba wouldn't cut it imo.
{Ed004's Note - Kroos would either cost a lot of money or mean De Gea leaves. If it's the former it limits how much we can spend on attacking options and if it's the later it would mean we would be making a lot of changes to the squad this summer}
19 Apr 2017 13:55:47
Surely adding Kroos, who for me is the very best passer in the world at current, is only going to better our squad. With Carrick in his twilight we will need that type of midfielder who can control a game. We don't have that in any of our other midfielders. Pogba is not that player, neither is Herrera. Fellaini has a role to play in certain games but will never control a game.
As Shappy has added in a separate post, we need to look at our squad as a whole, especially if we do get CL next season.
19 Apr 2017 14:26:45
Kross is very similar to carrick and could do the same job carrick has been doing for united over the past 10 year . during which he won 5 league titles and a CL .
It's the deep lying playmaker role that Alonso has made a career of over the years (another very good player ) .
Top player kroos but not sure we need him as everything points to Jose playing 4231 and herrera and pogba would be my first choice for that .
I don't think there are the hard men cm about that people talk about anymore, Roy kean would have to adapt to the modern game players like Kante have work rate and are busy just like herrera .
If we do play 433 I don't see the point of buying a griezmann type as his best position is off the striker and if we are going to stick him on the right wing we already have mata miki and rash playing there .
One last thing I think we have looked pretty solid in the middle , cm, cb the issue is further up the pitch I don't think we are losing games because we haven't got a midfield destroyer .
{Ed004's Note - If it came down to it I'd rather have Griezmann than Kroos and I think that's the issue at hand because I cannot see a formation that really suits both perfectly. Although, both could theoretically play in a 4231 and 433}
19 Apr 2017 14:40:26
Ed
If we buy griezmann you play him in his best position and build a team around him . And that's off the striker.
A madrid play442 4411 France 4231.
I don't see how a 3 man midfield gets the best out of him .
Pogba for me has also been bought to play cm if he wants to push on and I'm sure he does he needs a central role.
{Ed004's Note - That's why I said I can't see a system that suits both Griezmann and Kroos (I highly doubt we get both - I'm just stating I prefer Griezmann because of this). If Griezmann signs we will most likely play 4231 with Martial and Mkhitarian/Mata wide and Griezmann central. Midfield would then need someone very capable defensively to partner Pogba so Herrera/a new signing. Currently our biggest problem is scoring goals so I would prioritise that this summer which is primarily the reason why I picked Griezmann. However, although behind the striker is Griezmanns best position there is nothing stopping us playing him on the right if we ever need to shore up the midfield or playing him as a lone striker}
19 Apr 2017 14:58:08
Ed
Yer I would agree with most of that although I have a funny feeling griezmann will stay in Spain.
Should be an interesting summer.
{Ed004's Note - It'll be a very interesting summer. If Mourinho intends to play 4231 I'm really hoping we get Griezmann and Fabinho. It would significantly improve our team. Then hopefully a settled back four with actual fullbacks and we are set (assuming Zlatan stays)}
19 Apr 2017 14:59:23
There is certainly a case to be made for a true dm in our squad. However, over the past few years we have looked at our worst when Carrick doesn't play. It's not because he adds defensive presence but because he controls the game much like Kroos could.
Carrick probably offers more defensively than Kroos but it can be argued that Kroos doesn't have to do as much defensively considering he plays for a better team than us both with and without the ball and has Casemiro next to him?
It's a preference thing and I think Kroos is a great option for a CM. I also think if we're going to play a defensive midfielder that TFM could step in. Though he is untested in that position he has the physical attributes and defensive ability to be a success there.