14 Mar 2017 11:39:18
The enigma that is Paul Pogba, how has he actually played and can we really judge him without the bias of his transfer fee effecting our judgement.
First off can we really trust what we see? Most would say we can, but then I would say that magicians and illusionist work by tricking your mind to see something that isn't true. So clearly you can't always trust your own eyes. The eyes see what the mind expects them to see. So by reading different views in the media and by having your own ideas about what you expect to see will effect what you think you see.
The general consensus is that Pogba has been poor/ disapointing this season. Some call him lazy, some call him ineffective, many call into question his private life and what he does off the pitch.
Scroll down the page and see the comments on him, but what has he actually achieved this season in our team?
Well he is joint first with Zlatan and Herrera for MotM awards on 4 a piece. Now obviously the MotM award is very subjective, but the fact remains he had to at least have a decent performance to be considered for it.
Is he really lazy though? Well the stats suggest not, he averages 11km per game, which is the highest amoung all United players, he averages 0.5km more per game than Herrera which is a stat I found suprising.
The league high is set by Jordan Henderson at 11.8km per game which suggest that the difference between Pogba and the league high is around the same as between him and the second highest player at United (Herrera) . So maybe its his loping stride that makes him look lazy rather than an actual lack of work rate.
He is also getting stuck in defensively, he ranks 5th at United for average defensive actions per game (tackles, interceptions, aerial duals, clearances and blocks) with a respectable 7.6 per game.
Of the four players ranked higher than him only Herrera isn't an actual defender.
So work rate and defensively he has been one of our best players so far this season. Which suggests that there are many other players who should have their contribution questioned before Pogba.
As for influencing our play once we have the ball, Pogba ranks first at United and in the league for number of passes per game. He also ranks first at United for key passes. Which also suggests that he is doing more for our creativity than any other player at the club.
To be honest the only area I found he should be doing better is goals scored, considering he takes the second highest amount of shots for us behind only Zlatan his return of 4 goals isn't really good enough. But then luck could be said to have been against him here. So far he has hit the bar or post 9 times this season. Which is 4 more than any other player in Europes top five leagues. If those had gone in then he would be sitting on 13 goals for the season which is excellent for a midfielder, especially one who plays so deep. Paul Scholes only on a few occasions scored into double digits during his United career, and those times often came when he played much further forward.
So overall Pogba has actually been one of our best players this season, for a 23yo playing his first season in the EPL he's actually had a decent season.
Maybe like me the reason you might be left feeling a little underwhelmed is not due to his actual performances but because our expectations are too high.
14 Mar 2017 11:51:37
Last paragraph sums it up, the price tag is clouding our judgement of his performances.
Lets say in a hypothetical situation that we actually had pogba come through the academy and he had broken into the first team like lingard or rashford, he would be getting praise left right and centre.
14 Mar 2017 12:02:47
Very goo read Shappy. Puts some things in to perspective which helps because there are a lot of varying opinions about Pogba at the moment.
14 Mar 2017 12:05:30
The above stats are very interesting and paint a certain picture. However, can we assume that any midfielder played the way pogba is played will score similar stats?
For instance, like you said, defensively, apart from the back three he is only 2nd to hererra in this category; it can be argued that other than hererra he is the deepest lying MF (since carrick isn't a regular) .
Again the position he plays calls for him to be among the best in some stats, like passing. When in the MF #8 position, passing is one of the most important attributes as you are expected to link play and launch attacks.
On the issue of work rate, one can cover ground running around like a headless chicken and still have great stats. Work rate should go hand in hand with influencing play. Like closing Kante down to block the shot.
In all what i am asking is, what Shappy said about Pogba is true, but then again it is the minimum expectation of any good MF in that position, but Pogba is not just good he is supposed to be among the best, so are we being biased in his assessment, do we need to give him more time as it is his 1st real season in the EPL?
I think mou is treating him well in the sense that he is not killing his confidence. Last thing Pogba needs is to think that the Manager agrees with the tabloids.
He is young and should mature into a GREAT PLAYER!
14 Mar 2017 12:09:26
Lies, damn lies, and statistics. I have not seen a game this year where I thought he was the best player on the pitch, currently he is overpriced and over hyped.
14 Mar 2017 12:10:16
DSG, exactly mate. Although we tend to give our academy graduates an unfairly rough ride ala Cleverley, Welbeck even Lingard.
If we signed Pogba for under 15m we would be lauding him left right and centre. People see "Ronaldo" money being spent and expect Ronaldo level performances.
Very different players with vastly different jobs on the pitch.
14 Mar 2017 12:28:29
Superb post Shappy, thanks for going to the bother of actually looking into this in detail. I suspected as much. As I said before he's been good this season. Not great. Next season I think we'll see a vast improvement as he gets used to the league. He came from Italy remember, which is a stroll comparatively speaking.
Remember, hyperbole will kill us all. ;)
14 Mar 2017 12:32:59
The price should be something that's taken into consideration when evaluating his performances but its just being used as a stick to beat him now.
I think some fans and pundits made their mind about him before he even signed and nothing he does will be good enough to satisfy them.
Also i don't see what the end game is here with the constant criticism, do fans want to see him sold and us go back to a midfield of cleverley, anderson, fellaini etc? Or buy even more overpriced players they can criticise for not being absolutely brilliant every game.
14 Mar 2017 13:16:44
Should not hold a transfer fee or wage against a player or reputation for that matter. Been saying it for a while.
Pogba has done ok in a team that's not the european cup playing against the best player and is 6th in the epl .
I ask any to watch him live he is never on his toes he covered a lot of ground last night jogging after kante and co .
14 Mar 2017 13:21:36
If pogba had come through the ranks and been marketed very but would be getting dogs and lablled not united class .
14 Mar 2017 15:48:29
Aload of pointless ifs or buts.
The facts are, he's the world most expensive footballer and not playing even close to living up to the price tag. He needs a rest and a few games on the bench to give him that hunger again. At the moment he plays 90mins in every game its too much.
14 Mar 2017 16:50:31
FZZ,
They are your opinions which may or may not be correct, just because you say these are facts doesn't make them facts.
14 Mar 2017 17:35:55
Good afternoon guys,
I think the criticism of Paul Pogba is unfair and he's becoming a scapegoat for the fans frustrations. We've already endured the booing of Fellaini and now we're all gunning for one of the best midfielders in Europe. Let's keep things in perspective.
The guy is 23 years old, he never hides and has played virtually every game for us this season. He always wants the ball, he accepts responsibility and always attempts to make things happen. My only criticism of Pogba is that he lacks defensive discipline but hopefully as he matures he will improve this area of his game.
I actually think Jose has to take some responsibility. He has reverted to a 4-2-3-1 formation which just doesn't suit Pogba and it doesn't suit Herrera for that matter. Neither are holding midfielders it just doesn't come naturally to them but that is what is expected of a midfielder playing in that formation. When he plays there he actually spreads himself to thin, it's almost impossible to be a defensive lynchpin and attacking Dynamo all rolled into one. He's not superman, but that's what everybody expects for £90m right?
Pogba's best performances have come when he's played to the left of a midfield three with Carrick holding and Herrera to the right. This is how we were playing when we went on our winning run. Herrera can also play his natural game and press higher up the pitch.
In my humble opinion replacing Carrick will be the most important signing of the summer especially if we want to get the best out of Pogba and Herrera and allow them both to play their natural game.
Since the 1-1 draw with L'pool Jose has reverted to a 4-2-3-1 and our results and performances have suffered. Whilst we've still been hard to beat we've not played with the same fluidity and the draws have started to creep back in.
Moving forward if Jose wants to stick with a
4-2-3-1 then he needs to speak to Pobga and better define his expectations for him in that role. He needs to get on the training pitch and work with him on the defensive side of his game.
We have got one of the best and most dynamic midfielders in Europe with huge potential we are lucky to have him. He was a regular is a very good Juventus side that has dominated Italian football and he has played in a Champs League and Euro final. We've got a fantastic player on our hands let just show some patience and I'm sure he won't disappoint us.
I heard people call Ronaldo a one trick pony and a flat track bully even the great Roy Keane was criticised in his early Utd career.
Keep the faith we've got the right manager and we're heading in the right direction. Give Pogba a break the boy will come good.
{Ed025's Note - you make a very good argument for him danny, he is only young and im sure he will improve but your claim of "one of the best and most dynamic midfielders in europe" is im afraid far from the truth at this time, i wont comment on the "right manager" bit mate..
14 Mar 2017 17:52:48
Actually the 'world's most expensive footballer' comment from FZZ, was indeed a fact, not an opinion. Just saying.
14 Mar 2017 18:25:25
Shappy. Excellent post and as I mentioned in an earlier post that Pogba is actually having a good season.
Some of the fans have high expectations of him due to the price tag. The press can't wait to knock him as he plays for United and we paid a lot of money for him. Whether we like it or not, the press will always be on our back. But when our fans start criticising him, we have a serious problem.
14 Mar 2017 18:15:23
Ed 25 - I admit he's not been in the best of form this season and he can be frustrating at times but I just think his potential is huge. Maybe I should have said one of the best young midfielders in Europe. I can't think of any better for his age and I certainly wouldn't swap him for anyone.
I'm presuming your not a Jose fan and he can sometimes be a touch pragmatic for my liking but I have no doubt he's a winner and he'll have us challenging on all fronts again soon enough. I wish he'd just return to a 4-3-3 and we probably wouldn't be having the Pogba debate.
{Ed025's Note - i want to see a strong united danny as i think its good for the game but i dont think jose,s tactics lend much hope personally, for me the play is too slow and deliberate and i know we have been spoilt with the class of 92 and all that but its just not a proper united side for me mate..
14 Mar 2017 19:13:44
Great post. I wasn't aware of stats bit feel I have a better perception for reading this. Expectations are certainly sky high. If we think about it. Ronaldo went for £80m when a Benteke type cost £10m, Pogba went for £89m when a Benteke type costs £30m+; another interesting way if looking at the Pogba fee and expectation level. I haven't verified the Benteke example but hope this highlights what I mean.
14 Mar 2017 19:59:08
Ed 25 - I can understand your reservations about Jose style and he certainly hasn't embraced the gangnan style pressing games of Pep, Klopp and Potch but in my opinion all great sides are built from solid foundations and have the correct balance between defence and attack. Whilst I'm an admirer of the high intensity, all action fluidity of a Pep or Klopp side some of their defending would have me tearing my hair out. I think Jose represents the best balance for me. I'm intrigued to see if Pep can build a team in his image without a Messi or if Potch and Klopp can finally win a title. My money is on Jose to find that balance and whilst it might not always be pretty there is more than one way to skin a cat. I think it's fantastic for the Premier League that we've got all these amazing mangers, all with differing styles and philosophies and I don't think it will be long until English clubs start to dominate in Europe again.
{Ed025's Note - i hope your right danny, if you could get the old mourinho back im sure united would be in the mix mate..
14 Mar 2017 21:47:38
GDS I gave 2 facts.
1 is the expense
2 is he's not playing well
How is that opinion mate?
The rest of what I said about rest etc is a opinion, and is quite accurate.
15 Mar 2017 08:37:27
This post Shappy, is the proof of why stats are so misleading. The being "our best defensive player" was very laughable. I believe in actually watching the game to form an opinion and to not just throw out stats to suit my argunent.
Anyone who has watched United against the top 5 sides and in the cup final would tell you that Pogba was a complete passenger in terms of positioning and workrate and got rings run round him. He has the mobility of a Fellaini off the ball.
Against teams who sit back and give him time he has been good. I'm not at all dissapointed with the goals scored stat of Pogba. Abject failure to control/ dominate games against top 5 teams and when pressed is what concerns me far more.