06 Mar 2017 10:49:45
I don't agree with the view that the site is toxic at all. Just some differing views and expectations.
For me a lot of knee jerk reaction to a really poor result on Saturday.
The week before we won a trophy.
There are issues in converting chances but at least we are creating them which is more than can be said for the previous 2 years.
Jose inherited a really poor bunch of players that in the main have been under achieving for years.
Even the longer serving players have been under performing compared to their best days. Rooney Carrick in particular.
Smalling jones young all poor. The newer players blind darmian bastion shaw rojo fellaini all under whelming. Only herrera mata Valencia and ddg have been consistently up to the required level.
Of his own new signings pogba has been hit and miss bailly looks great ibra has been great and miki fantastic when fit.
I though we would be better off than we are now but we are improving.
But there are players here for years that have been under achieving consistently for 4 different managers 3 in some cases so instead of baking the new manager or latest signing we need to look at the longer serving players. Some of them are over the hill and some are just not good enough. I am sure Jose will sort it out.
How many united players would start for Chelsea . Not many imo. Madrid? Barcelona? Bayern? athletic? City? Spurs? That tells you that the players are not of the required standard.
{Ed001's Note - just a few weeks ago you were all raving about Jones and Rojo! I can't keep up any more. They were about to prove their greatness not so long ago.}
06 Mar 2017 11:18:09
Hey Ed001, I think the view was that Jones and Rojo were doing exceptionally well (true) and much better than we expected (even truer) . I don't remember anyone saying they were "about to prove their greatness". I might have missed that so please do correct me if I am wrong with a quote from whoever it was who said it. Previously to their good run and very recently (last one/ two games respectively) they have been poor so their cumulative performance record for United is poor, even considering their purple patch.
To me, most people on here are fairly sensible, level headed folk. It's just the sound of sense is quieter than the sound of nonsense.
Regards.
{Ed001's Note - well people were asking if Jones was about to prove Fergie right. As for a quote, do you really think I bother to take that much notice? I was clearly being tongue in cheek anyway, but people were raving about them and not just saying they were playing better than expected. Most people, in general, on all the sites, are far from sensible or level headed. Most are reactionary and jump on everything, good or bad, with major kneejerks. We live in a world where few have patience.}
06 Mar 2017 11:38:17
We need to get a centre back this summer, Phil Jones is more Wes Brown than the suppose John Terry "potential" he had, Rojo is a good squad player than can play as a Centre Back or Left Back so I keep him, I would rather get rid of Jones, think if he was going to be this world class centre back he would be showing some signs by now, he no better than Brown, Evans that came before, just not United level at all, had enough time to prove it but just hasn't cut the mustard.
06 Mar 2017 12:10:53
I don't agree Shane. Jones was looking very promising this season until his latest injury. I'd like to see more of him under Jose before forming an opinion as to whether he's good enough.
06 Mar 2017 12:46:43
Fair point Andrew, just the way I see it, we definitely need a quality centre back this summer, you need roughly 4 centre backs if you play with 2 at the back, Smalling and Baily won't go which leaves either Rojo or Jones as the one that's expendable, also we got Axel and Ro-Shaun coming through, Jones for me, just can't rely on him.
06 Mar 2017 13:33:09
Ed001 I don't consider myself to be knee jerk. That's the point I was making. The new signings need some time and patience. So does the new manager.
However we have players at the club for 3 or more years now that have not performed to a consistent high level for most of that time and we have senior plays there for 5 or more years that are simply not good enough or have past their best.
On jones I think he is incredibly poor in the air his timing and technique is all wrong and a bit like rafeal he is still making rash tackles and has never seemed to learn. He went through a decent period alongside rojo for a time but he is not my cup of tea I'm afraid.
The manager is getting more from herrera rojo and valencia than the previous managers but I think it's a case and now proven for 4 years that some of the rest are simply not good enough. They were not good enough under moyes under lvg or under jose. Rooney and Carrick were good enough under fergie but time waits for no man and they are both over the hill and can't be relied on weekly.
It's no coincidence that most of these players don't start for the international team jones rojo smalling young Carrick fellaini lost his place rooney can't start ahead of Ali and kane surely.
06 Mar 2017 19:43:00
Rojo and jones weren't and never will be top quality, or united quality, if we want to be winning the league and champions league. they might plug a hole when we are stuck though.
06 Mar 2017 23:04:09
How can you say after one poor game that Jones is not first team quality? The guy, if he can stay fit, is top class. I'm really close to ditching this site because all the toxic plastic fans emerge after a defeat or draw, it was a classic rebound from a team that felt hard done by and defended like gladiators, we had a bad game after LOTS of games and were knackered. We will beat Rostov away.
07 Mar 2017 10:14:40
One poor game, where have you been.
The guy is top class. he is average at best far from top class. and this has always been my opinion on him.
07 Mar 2017 12:29:08
Do people actually watch the games or just one incident? Jones had a good game on Saturday other than giving the penalty away which was a little unfortunate. The rest of the game he didn't make one error and looked very comfortable in possession.
Someone tell me another mistake he made on Saturday, or in his last 5 games, because I'm struggling to think of one.
07 Mar 2017 13:32:12
Gds I disagree with you on jones. He had been at the club 5 years or so. He is poor in the air and clumsy in the tackle his positioning leaves a lot to be desired imo. He is not good on the ball his passing is not at all penetrative and he is injured too often. His contribution since he joined the club has been minimal imo. He has not lived up to expectations and will never be good enough to command a regular starting berth at United when all players are fit.
He does ok as cover when fit but is really just a cover player. I can name 15 to 20 better cb's in the league 3 at spurs 3 at Chelsea Southampton Everton crystal place Liverpool arsenal all have at least 1 cb better than him imo.
07 Mar 2017 15:51:39
I'll assume you can't name a mistake then. I wasn't saying he was good enough to be a regular, I was saying he has been good in the last few games and only made one mistake on Saturday which is his first in a while.
07 Mar 2017 16:41:03
Gds all players make mistakes in every game. Maybe he was not a fault for a goal buy mage many mistakes. How many games was he rated 10 outta 10. none. So no perfect games. Don't be daft.
07 Mar 2017 16:41:36
Apologies for typos😀.
07 Mar 2017 16:54:21
Once again, nobody said he was perfect, I said he has been good recently and that was his first mistake for a long time. I would play Bailly and Jones as our first choice centre halves at the moment and buy a centre half to play with Bailly in the summer and have Jones and ROJO as back up.
07 Mar 2017 17:19:07
Sorry i thought you did he had mace no mistakes ergo he was perfect.