Manchester United banter 74861

 

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05 Mar 2017 16:06:42
It really is laughable

To quote the usual suspect "Why don't you start holding the players and manager to task instead of accepting this ridiculous product we produce week in week out considering the equipment/ resources at our disposal? "

Last week we won a major trophy, not the biggest one, but a major trophy. The product is considerably better than last season and the problem is down to the lack of composure in front of goal by the players.

Three and a half years ago the club appointed a disaster, then compounded it, meaning three years of accepting mediocrity. In that time it was the manager who got the blame and the sack, the players cocooned in their bubble likely didn't think they had any blame at all, not their fault and we have seen what effect that attitude can have. One of SAF great strengths was the players knowing who the boss was, the players went before the manager and we need to get to that again.

The responsibility of putting the ball in the net is the players, the manager is accountable for the result but the players have to stand up or be shipped out. Money doesn't buy the Control a manager wants. I will take you back to SAF and I am certain he said that winning a trophy bought him time and meant he had more control. Jose has won the first trophy he possibly could and that's impressive. Now he has to get that mental attitude right and it's a big task after the debacle in recent years but he is very much going in the right direction and doesn't need to be taken to task, the same can't be said of non scoring players. That improvement will come but stamping feet in a hissy fit a week after winning a major trophy is ridiculous.

Agree16 Disagree10

05 Mar 2017 16:11:42
Redman not like u to have a go at a manager.

05 Mar 2017 16:32:15
You can't blame the manager for missing the chances we have this season. But at least we are creating the chances in the first place, which is a far cry from what we witnessed last season.

05 Mar 2017 16:38:38
Really good post redman.

05 Mar 2017 16:40:43
Let's give it patience guys, it takes time and you have to realise this has been our best season in the last 4 seasons since Fergie retired in terms of football, we on our way back to the top

Yesterday was one of those games we should of won, another day a opposition keeper probably had their best game of the season, remember Heaton and Grant, I was disappointed with Zlatan missing the penalty, I feel like we on the way back to being feared and we going to have days like this, let's think of the long term objective then what's just happening in the moment, look how long it took Fergie to get it right.

05 Mar 2017 16:48:56
Copy and paste that a year into LVG's reign RedMan?

Excuses, excuses. We won a micky mouse cup, nice to win, but using that B team cup to justify a successful campaign is laughable. Every season we spend record amounts on players, have record wage bills, yet produce very poor displays more often than not. Newer managers have their teams playing better than Jose has us now. Have you watched the past 4-5 matches?

I do blame the manager as well RedMan - he is responsible for picking, coaching and encouraging those players that don't do their jobs. He is also responsible for making important decisions during games. Yesterday a pub manager could have done what Jose did, basically "Keep trying lads it will come for us", despite a fundamental change in the opposition and a steep drop off in our tempo after we scored - the scenario had changed but Jose just did what he almost does and rely on a moment of magic rather than being decisive. Then the eventual changes he made were not exactly inspired either.

Every time we win people justify the performance by saying "it's the points that matter", every time we draw it's "we were unlucky not to take out chances". It's not good enough.

05 Mar 2017 16:54:55
Redman, you are wasting your time mate - even though you are right. The usual suspect (s) as you put it will never be happy. If we lose, obviously the manager is incompetent and not earning his wages. If we draw, we were rubbish - no matter how we actually played (generally, not referring to yesterday) .
If we win, it's because we were lucky, or the opposition was poor. If we win 4 nil it should have been 8, and so on.

We all have different opinions, that I get. But for some to suggest we have made no progress since Moyes or LvG is, quite frankly, laughable.

I really don't understand why literally everything that happens on a football pitch during the course of 90 minutes is all because the manager is useless.

05 Mar 2017 17:00:24
Sensible post as always redman. I've kept away from posting my view of the game and where we are at the moment. I will do it in due course but having read some of the posts the past day, I think it is clear we all want best for the club. But we have to understand that it does take time and the squad Jose inherited was bereft of ideas, creativity and confidence. This has improved under Jose but we aren't putting our chances away and that has summed up our season. Some on here (I won't name names) blow like the wind. One week zlatan single handedly wins is the league cup and the next he has a shocker and they attack him. Yes he was awful and should have been subbed but we just put out heads down and work hard for the next game. It's been toxic here since the game yesterday and it's not an enjoyable atmosphere.

Again good post red man, always speak sense mate.

05 Mar 2017 17:06:11
Unbeaten since October. Something most be going to plan.

05 Mar 2017 17:16:50
Redman is the product considerably better or just better, because if you spend 150 mn and the improvement is we are 6th can hardly be called considerable can it. In LVG's first season at this point we were 4th having scored 5 more goals while conceding 4 more, while in lvg's last season we were 5th having scored 6 less goals and conceded 2 more.

Our problems in the end are the same though a bit different from last season, last season we were not creating enough but scoring whatever we were creating this season its the opposite, last season iirc we were very bad against mid table and bottom teams away from home, this season it is at home that the problems have shifted to. Last season we were beating all the other top 4 teams, this season we haven't done so yet except tottenham. Last season we flopped in europe this season we have done a bit better and luck has been with us so hopefully we win it, last season we won the fa cup this season we most likely will be knocked out against chelsea though i will be happy to be proven wrong on that.

05 Mar 2017 17:30:41
All the abuse lvg got for winning the fa cup and 5th in the league . Betty and redman must off missed that.

05 Mar 2017 17:31:05
Exactly CSM - all smoke and mirrors. Of course we are better, but not by a big distance and the bar was so low to start with. Yet again we HOPE next year will be better, and by God we will need £200m spent to nudge us up a place or two and no doubt it will be tolerated or seen as success for some.

Tuor - you can go unbeaten all season and get relegated mate.

05 Mar 2017 17:35:09
Must off missed what Jred? Please explain as I'm not sure what you are getting at.

05 Mar 2017 17:41:22
CSM

One window buying good players will not resolve the years of poor buying including SAF latter years and then there is the appointment of the wrong managers. The usual suspects told us last season it was the entertainment that was everything and they would rather be 8th being entertained, now we find that isn't the case. My old eyes tell me the product is considerably better and there is good reason to be positive.

05 Mar 2017 17:54:09
Has that ever happened before, Beast; go unbeaten all season and get relegated that is?

05 Mar 2017 18:02:54
There are plenty of reasons to be positive, RM. Not like we are struggling to draws at home. Not sure what is going on to be honest. Just look at the stats from those games. An average of 10 shots on target I think. Maybe slightly more. I 'll have to have a look. But it is all pointing in the right direction which should be cause to be positive.

05 Mar 2017 18:12:23
I think with us being stuck in 6th the last few months is giving the doom and gloomers more ammo then they have. 7 points off Spurs in second with a game in hand. Everything isn't rosie but compared to the football we've been served up in the last few years, this season the football has been enjoyable to watch.

The manager has been here 8 months. In the footballing world that's nothing. Using the money Jose spent as a stick to beat him with is nonsense as well. I thought with the quality of the players he's brought in maybe we could challenge for the title but in hindsight it might have been too soon.

Our performances on the pitch have improved a lot. We are slowly getting characteristics back of what we want to see in a United team. We are improving and that's all you can ask for.

Before the doom and gloomers write F on everyone's report card, at least let them finish the season. A couple of trophies maybe? 2nd or 3rd finish? You never know. We've played a lot of games already this year and results like this are going to happen.

A few signings in the summer. Mourinho has a year under his belt. Hopefully a strong finish this campaign and the future is looking bright people!

05 Mar 2017 18:19:55
Red man 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

Jred, Common, beast etc are never happy. Jose is 6 months into his reign, has already won a domestic major trophy, and despite the MESS he inherited, people are still not happy with the progress. Honestly it's not worth arguing mate, it really isn't. If you say it's black they'll tell you it's white.

05 Mar 2017 18:26:37
Betty
I can't with out"" but its ok your right, no matter what happens
The manager will get the blame.

05 Mar 2017 18:38:45
Jred, where's he having a go at the manager? I didn't read it like that at all. I thought he gave high praise.

05 Mar 2017 19:00:49
Red Man - I don't think the performances are that much better, that's my point! A bit better than shocking is not exactly telling me all is good in the world.

Tuor - doubt it mate, but a draw is like a loss to me especially against relegation teams.

This unbeaten run thing is more damaging than it is good. A loss here and there to force changes could mean we end up winning games we would typically draw, the safety first approach doesn't wash with me. If we had mid-table aspirations then I understand pining for long unbeaten runs, but ultimately you could win 5 lose and and still have the same points if you drew the 15.

If anyone can name me more than 5 very good performances this season, I mean entertaining Utd of Old style performances I will eat my words. I'm sick of reading "we are on the right track", no we are 6th and playing poorly far too often.

05 Mar 2017 21:35:57
I think mourinho will get it right. But I've been to six home games this year, city, Liverpool, Stoke, West ham, Bournemouth and Boro and I can honestly say that non of these games did we play well.
I watch teams like Spurs and City and they have their own problems but they have days where they look superb and demolish other teams. Can we honestly say United are in that bracket? No way.
Long time ago, when giggs Scholes nevilles Cantona and the rest were playing, I remember other team's fans used to think they're almost as good as us, but I knew deep down we were the best by far because player for player, we were the best. So now be honest and think on, who do we have who is the best in the league apart from De Gea and even then it could be argued that Curtois is as good. What about the rest? Be honest and you realise how far we are behind.

06 Mar 2017 07:17:52
redman i wasn't one of those though, good football is something one must strive for in long run not short. In short run it is the results that eventually matter. I think our football is considerably better but what about the end result that is still a long way off and as schmid says in post above me, has our football really improved that much, show me a game where we have blown away the opposition for the whole game, chelsea, city, arsenal, liverpool and tottenham can boast of such games, we sadly cannot.

Personally i have been less than impressed by mourinho, barring zlatan none of the signings can be called unqualified success and even with zlatan his performances as a whole have been less than satisfactory. People called lvg out for buying herrera and not knowing how to use him, has mourinho done any better with pogba. Mkhitaryan and Adm also have many similarities with issues in settling, manager buying them without doing a proper scouting job etc. and for all his impact unless he comes up with the goods for rest of the season without getting injured he will also not be classed as a successful signing. Bailly has a long way to go yet though the signs are very good. But all in all his signings haven't worked out as well as they should have for now atleast.

06 Mar 2017 09:03:41
Aside from Zlatan, i think Bailly and Miki have been outstanding. Yes Miki had a slow integration in to the team but that in itself seems to have halted another ADM scenario.

Bailly without the AFCON and a slight knock would be even more settled with us but as it stands, he is for me an integral part of our defense.

Pogba, i like him as a player, i was happy to see him at UTD but aside from the money (the money is of no concern of mine) he is hot and cold. BUT no matter how you look at it, the stats show that he is a positive influence to our MF.

06 Mar 2017 09:23:05
Again with the re-writing history, Red Man. Before you start slagging off those on here with genuine concerns, I'd check the consistency of your own views. Supported LVG's appointment at the time, but now it was wrong?

06 Mar 2017 21:14:37
Noucamp. stevie

You need to get your facts right. I wanted Mourinho to replace SAF. Then I wanted Klopp when we got rid of the useless Moyes, very very clearly expressed that on here, so where did you get that I supported LVG?

When we didn't get Klopp, we appointed someone I didn't believe was right but was better than the previous incumbent.

I suggest checking your facts.

07 Mar 2017 12:37:49
For someone who didn't think he was the right appointment, you did some shouting at those of us who dared to point out any problems once he arrived.

People are allowed to express valid doubts whilst still accepting things have got better under Jose. You seem to take it as a personal insult if someone says anything remotely negative about him, with all the 'usual suspects' digs. Why would you want to try and divide the site into them and us?

07 Mar 2017 20:45:49
Noucamp

Express "valid" doubts, only the usual suspects would be so arrogant to describe them as valid at this point. Calling them valid do not make them valid. In fact they are far from "valid" only days after the manager has won a major trophy, the first one on offer, in his first season, something no other United manager has done before. The manager has the relevant cv, has already won a major trophy, the only valid point is there has been notable progress from last season.







 

 

 
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