28 Feb 2017 06:31:37
@Ed001 and the rest of the posters would love your thoughts on this.
My view on Pogba :
This may sound controversial but I have been very disappointed with him. His performances against the top 5 teams and indeed in the cup final have been very poor.
He is great when he we are in control of a game and the opposition is sitting back and allowing him time and space to play. But when pressed and hurried by the opposition in big games he has ran into traffic, lost the ball and failed to influence games.
Also off the ball, his positioning and workrate have been very poor. This is his biggest weakness and nothing has changed in this aspect of his game for 4 years now. In all of the games against the top 5 and in the final his positioning was a massive liability and left a huge hole in midfield where the oppositon could just run into. What's worse is many a times the game just past him by and he wasn't even be bothered to chase back and was jogging along. He seems a bit like Fellaini off the ball with the same lack of intelligence.
He needs to step up and demand more of himself. He seems to think he has already made it but is outplayed when we come up against any decent opposition. Him dabbing to the camera after the final when his performance was so bad was quite embarrassing.
For a player of his size, physique and athleticism he should be dominating the big games and being more box to box. I have no problem with him attacking-wise against the lesser teams but that's not what we bought him for. He almost seems a liability when against decent opoosition and this will be punished even more if we are in the UCL next season. Also he only seems able to play in a 4-3-3 and in any other formation is very ineffective which restricts us a lot tactically.
Everyone keeps raving about Pogba but I don't see it and rather think their opinion is based on what they think or have heard Pogba is rather than being based on watching him. I watched him for Juve in the Serie A and he played the same way.
{Ed001's Note - while I do agree he has been disappointing, I think that is more by virtue of the huge fee paid for him, rather than because of the level he was at. In Italy he was a huge potential player who showed flashes of genius, which is pretty much what he has done since he arrived back in England.
Also, in the final, there was one point that for me made a huge difference from him, I can only vaguely remember it now and not at what point it was, but he stepped in and won the ball back brilliantly. It was just as Saints were looking to establish real dominance, rather than just being the better team, and it did break up their rhythm just as it got going. I think he had a decent game, it was a team performance that was lacking as a whole. He does need to work more and press the opposition, but that has never really been his game so it will take him time.
By the way, it was only a few months ago, before United faced Liverpool, I had a similar conversation with Ed004. He was moaning about some team that had been picked by somebody or other, from the two clubs, and he was screaming about Pogba being left out. I said then that I failed to see what he had done, I still think he is the same, just not doing enough. He needs to be producing those flashes of genius more regularly or pick up his workrate.
However, potentially he has it all. It is all up to him to produce it more regularly.}
28 Feb 2017 09:52:53
Still only 23, He has the right people around him to fine-tune him. I expect more from him next season and seasons to come.
28 Feb 2017 09:55:50
Be patience Red Faith, Pogba is going to be a world beater in the next few years, you starting to see him impose himself more in games. The ability is their it's just a matter of time.
28 Feb 2017 10:01:59
He started very well, the City game onwards he has drifted in and out of games. To be fair to the lad a lot of our players have a tendency to do that, so he isn't alone. The fee that we paid for him isn't his fault and only increases the pressure on him to perform to justify the price tag.
When the team
Okies further up the pitch instead of playing deep, he and the rest of the players benefit from this.
Hopefully in the summer we can get a top holding midfielder to replace Carrick and allow Pogba and co to flourish.
28 Feb 2017 10:12:50
The constant pogba bashing is getting a little boring now. If he cost half of what we bought him for there would be less scrutiny of every little thing he does. Whilst I agree at times against top opposition he takes too long on the ball and gets caught in position, everything we do goes through him. He's touched the ball more than anyone else in the league this year along with Henderson of Liverpool. Because he's not scoring goals and assists automatically he's been disappointing. I have actually watched him closely the last 3-4 games as he has been deployed in a two with Herrera and I actually prefer him further back. When he is behind zlatan he slows the play down but he pings these brilliant long balls to switch the play and offers a physicality in midfield we have lacked for years. Above all, he is only 23 and he will be the best midfielder in the world with us.
Patience and time is needed.
28 Feb 2017 10:15:57
I would say I have been slightly disapointed, but as Ed001 points out a lot of that is probably down to how much we paid for him.
I think a lot of people have seen us spend "Ronaldo" money on him and expect Ronaldo level performances.
I also think us United fans have been spoiled a little with midfielders such as Robson and Keane and we kind of expect a certain work rate and tigerish attitude from our midfielders. Scholes may not have been physically the most dominating of men, but he still had that attitude. Carrick has always split opinion because he hasn't got that attitude, even though he has been an great player for us.
Nearly all the midfielders who have been deemed a success over the last 30 years at our club have that attitude, the ones who didn't have that fighting battling attitude have often found themselves not held in the same kind of esteem even though they have been just as talented. Veron and Kleberson spring to mind.
I think a lot of people, me included are still waiting for Roy Keanes heir. And many thought that would be Pogba, but he just isn't that sort of player.
Redfaith, your very issue with him is that he doesn't grab games by the scruff of the neck and get stuck into the oppositon. But if you watched him in Italy then it would have been obvious that Vidal was that player for Juventus. People seen a big strong six foot plus midfielder an expect their game to be based around physicality. Pogba has the frame to be physical but he has never really shown the attitude to use his physical advantage in a way say Viera used to.
I think Mourinho intends to mould Pogba to be one of the two midfielders in Mourinho's go to 4231. This will take time for Pogba to get used to and to learn his new role. He is kind of a hybrid midfielder, somewhere between a No.8 and a No.10 rather than being true to either role. It worked perfectly at Juventus where he had the freedom due to Pirlo playing deep and Vidal acting like a vaccum cleaning up every lose ball.
But in Mourinho's 4231 he will not have the space in front of him as often due to the presence of a No.10 and he won't have the freedom to roam as much due to their not being two other midfielders to plug the gaps.
He needs to learn to be more positionally aware while also picking his moments to venture forward and impact the game that way. This won't happen over night, and will take time.
For all of us fans who feel Pogba hasn't been the hit we wanted him to be, we only need to look at some of his stats which point out he is more than pulling his weight. Most passes, most passes in the oppoanants half, most key passes, hit the bar or post more than any player in the top 5 leagues in Europe. If half the time he has hit the wood work they went in instead he would be into double figures.
He is having an impact, and a good one. I just think many of us have unfairly high expectations because of the fee and the kind of midfielder we expect. His social media antics probably grate all the more because he isn't fulfilling those unfairly high expections. Either that or we are getting old and out of touch with todays youth and their world. Lol.
28 Feb 2017 10:26:42
@Ed001
Thanks for the quick reply.
I think your reply that you need to remember a specific incident where he stopped a Southampton attack sums it up perfectly. He does that so rarely that one needs to go out and search for those moments when he should be doing that regularly every game. That's got nothing to do with price tag but is a basic requirement from any good midfielder.
I have no problem with attacking ability, technique etc especially against the lesser teams. But against quality opposition he has been outplayed and very easily pressed out of the game. I'm sure you remember the Liverpool game at Old Trafford where Klopp's men ran rings round him and he looked completely off the pace and out of position every single time. It was the same against Chelsea away.
And when someone at the heart of your midfield leaves so much space, is so less mobile and lazes around off the ball it affects the positoning of the others too since they then have to cover for him and overall reduces the performance of the entire team. The exact opposite is seen when a player like Kante is able to lift the game of the entire team at Leicester and now at Chelsea. He also tactically limits us to a 4-3-3.
@Shane88
The worrying part for me is that he was the same at Juve and nothing has changed in about 4 years in his off the ball game. I don't have the same confidence you do that he is going to be a world beater. I don't see the ability, positioning, intelligence or workrate off the ball.
If this continues from a player at the heart of the midfield we will be punished time and again in big games.
@MadHatter
I don't see why getting a defensive midfielder is going to make things any better. Herrera is already covering every blade of grass. What needs to happen is Pogba needs to improve, not those around him.
{Ed001's Note - I just meant it stood out as a moment where he broke up the play but no comment was made by the commentators. It was ignored, when it was an excellent piece of play by him. A lot of the work done off the ball gets missed.}
28 Feb 2017 11:11:49
You only see the real off the ball work at a match. On tv you only see what the camera shows you and, what the commentators tell you.
It's only his 1st season in a tougher league with a lot higher tempo If Pogba's having a poor game he doesn't go into hiding he still wants the ball.
28 Feb 2017 11:56:20
@Shappy
I have no problem with Pogba's displays against the teams below us in the table. Its his displays in the big games, especially off the ball that concern me very much.
I don't expect him to be a Keane or a Vidal. I expect him to be positonally sound and tactically far better with a higher workrate. He doesn't need to be the principle ball winning midfielder, but needs to be far sharper and up to pace with the game than he has been.
You've pulled up some stats I guess, I'd like to see those same stats for him in the games against the top 5 and you will see what I mean. He is more than pulling his weight against the lesser teams attacking wise and has been unlucky against them that he has hit the post so many times.
But playing when you have time on the ball and the opposition is sitting back is one thing and in high intensity games against equal or better oppsitionthat gives you no time and space is completely another.
Not much his changed in his game in that aspect even at Juventus and that is what concerns me. I hope he will improve upon it, because if he doesn't he will end up being an Ozil like player that gets outplayed against top opposition.
And my comments are nothing to do with his pricetag, any midfielder at the heart of a United midfield whether costing 0mil, coming through the youth academy or costing a world record transfer should be judged on the same standard that's expected to play in that position.
28 Feb 2017 11:58:16
100 percent the case junction. When you see pogba live he is all over the park he is a phenomenal athlete. Composure and decision making improvements will come. We are lucky to have him back and like I said everything we do goes through him even if he is not directly scoring or getting assists.
28 Feb 2017 11:39:07
I want to see him do it in a big game. He behaves like an Arsenal player - fancy haircuts, emojis, social media posts etc but bottles it in the big games and turns up against Swansea. We need winners.
I want to see him grab a game and control it like Gerrard could. Hopefully this will come with time and coaching.
28 Feb 2017 11:04:00
I noticed it ed001, he uses his body to create the interception, that and the piece of skill he did on the 3 players is what I remember well from Pogba from the game on Sunday
Redfaith we just got to believe in him, he reminds me of a more attacking version of Vieira, what I really like his ability to get get and down the pitch with ease, next few years he be in the best of the world talk.
28 Feb 2017 12:58:17
Ive said a few times now if you go and watch him live he walks around the pitch and only gets the ball when its in his area .
Doesnt anticipate enough and isn't on his toes enough but i'm sure that will improve, the lad has bags of talent .
He is playing at the same level he was at juve but at juve he was the icing on the cake in a very good team so could coast along and then do something brilliant .
Allegri said he needed to cut out the flash stuff and work harder.
People built him up to be a ronaldo type player but he is not at that level.
But pogba has built himself up a lot as well, its not just the price tag its the hype around brand pogba that he gets judged by .
But that football more is expected of the top players.
28 Feb 2017 22:01:24
Had he scored twice as many goals as he has, which, but for his affinity for the woodwork or shooting at the goalkeeper he could easily have done, I don't think we would be talking about him being disappointing.
So for me the one area of his game where he needs to make a dramatic improvement is in his finishing. 6 or 7 more goals from him at opportune moments and we would have been in 2nd place and challenging for the title.