08 Nov 2016 07:53:13
Its great to see youngsters such as Shaw, Martial, CBJ, TFM, Depay, Lingard and Rashford all prosper under Jose Mourinho.
Many thought Mourinho wouldn't be good for them based on his poor record with young players, but its good to see so many of them flourishing and taking the next step in their careers.
08 Nov 2016 08:31:02
I think TFM's progress is actually being stalled by Mou, he had many chances to play him or at least have him on the bench, esp for a player who can be a cover for many positions.
CBJ is prospering? Depay?
08 Nov 2016 08:37:10
Oh mbd.
08 Nov 2016 08:37:53
And your point is? Shappy posting something just for the sake of it is pointless. If you wish to criticise, make sure it is constructive. Of all those you named, how many of them have been good when they have played. Rashford has played the most of all and has been equally wasteful. Martial has. Even non existent, shaw has played worse than a right back who played left back last match. Rather than just questioning the manager, why don't you look at the players and their attitude to playing for the greatest team in the world.
For shaw, Jose isn't the first man who has questioned him. Lvg did the same.
08 Nov 2016 09:02:33
here's a few stats for the season shappy rashford has 8 pl appearances including 2 subs, martial has 7 pl appearances includes 3 subs, lingard gas 6 pl appearances includes 1 sub, shaw has 7 pl appearances includes 1 sub. Only player who one can genuinely say has been underused is fosu mensah who has just 1 sub appearance that lasted a whopping 30 seconds and martial, shaw and lingard have been out injured for some of the games. But yes why let facts get in the way of a rant, you are right jose is a disgusting man not playing youngsters, if we don't sack him we will end up getting relegated this season. Jose out.
08 Nov 2016 09:49:47
Good post CSM.
The OP is just silly. It's November and the sarcasm is baffling.
08 Nov 2016 11:04:18
The post was a little tongue in cheek.
But on a serious note isn't it the managers job to get the best out of his players?
We all slated LvG for not getting the best out of his players, shouldn't Jose be judged the same?
Jose has a history of failing to get the best out of young players, some people suggest it is the fault of the players. To an extent I agree with that, the players need to take responibility for their performances.
But many young players such as Lingard, Martial and Rashford played key roles for us last season and their performance level has dropped off under Mourinho.
One player dropping off can be put down to the player himself, but three players suggests a pattern caused by the change in management.
I have said in the past most young players have flourished in teams that are less pragmatic and more expansive as this doesn't restrict them so much and takes burden off them some what. Things that are vital for young players to thrive. I put this point across as a potential reason why Mourinho hasn't had much success with young players. Mourinho himself has in a Mourinho sort of way accepted his flaw in progressing young players by going on the offensive and trying to defend his youth record with his list of 49 players he supposedly gave debuts too and helped their developement. Although many on that list were questionable.
08 Nov 2016 11:56:22
Shappy martial's performances have dropped because of what was going on around him outside of football it had nothing to do with mourinho, albeit the whole no 9 thing did not help but again nothing to do with mourinho, rashford's performances were always going to drop he isn't messi or ronaldo yet he can't score goals every week and he has 3 goals from 8 apps mostly from the wing which isn't a bad return, criticism of lvg was more about him playing players out of position and playing turgid football neither of which jose has done yet, rashford and martial started their careers on the wings and both are not yet ready to take the upfront position. Lingard scored at wembley and has done pretty decent barring city game so i don't know what you are on about and even last season where lingard was good but it will be stretching it a bit more than little to call it key role.
We had what 37 shots against burnley, played well against stoke, swansea, leicester, fenerbache home, and those early 3 games but yeah let's forget that, it isn't expansive is it or attacking it was all lvg level boring football.
Also about players failing despite manager backing them and it being manager's fault then sir alex should have been sacked a long time ago, i really can't remember a decent young player that came out from the club in last 5-6 years of his tenure bought or from academy i mean look at the list, welbeck, cleverley who people thought was going to be our next scholes ( damn you ferguson you destroyed him), nani could never get his consistency to match his potential that he had before joining us, anderson was golden boy winner before joining us he turned into useless, rafael and fabio never kicked on, evans never took the next step, jones and smalling did not turn out to be great cb's ferguson thought they will be, i mean all these players can't just not turn out not good enough it must be the manager's fault. Sack ferguson sack him now, oh wait he is already retired, damn you fergie you lost us the golden generation.
08 Nov 2016 12:14:46
I think it is less about the manager getting the best out of the young players and more about the team as a whole being very inconsistent at the moment. Let's be honest even the established 'older' players aren't playing consistently well week in week out. Once the team is settled I think the performances will improve.
08 Nov 2016 13:27:28
CSM, all those excuses sound familiar to the ones given about LvG after his first season and even well into his second.
I'm not saying sack Jose or anything even close to it. Just pointing out that Jose himself isn't perfect and asking whether there are signs that maybe in the long run Jose and United won't work out as well as everyone hoped.
There are little signs, not obvious glaring ones like the last six months of LvG's reign. But signs not all is right at the club, how much of that is down to Jose we can't tell. Some of it certainly.
The real question is can he turn it around, does Jose have the ability to take control and steer us back on course. Because he doesn't look the same hungry scrappy fighter we saw in his first stint at Chelsea, he seems less sure of himself, less head strong and far more weary.
08 Nov 2016 13:58:10
Ofcourse shappy there are things not right with the club, it has been in a downward spiral since fergie left mourinho has added to it in some cases, zlatan starts game after game missing sitter after sitter but minute someone else gets it horribly wrong they get canned, whole mkhitaryan mess, but this shaw and smalling thing is not his doing, nor does he have anything to do with martial going off the boil.
I don't know what these little signs are so please elucidate, but i can definitely see positive signs, we are playing much much better, our problem with draws has been more due to our inability to score than to create which was the big issue with van gaal and add to that we don't seem out of sorts at the back like we were under moyes, barring chelsea which also started with a mistake at the back from ddg, we have conceded due to mistakes from individuals rather than team playing bad mostly. We seem to be dominating the games when not against top 4 something we rarely did either under moyes or lvg, we will get the top 4 games right too when mourinho has a defense he can trust. It takes time, just because you can throw money doesn't make problems go away, city with all their spending did not win a title for 3-4 seasons, chelsea took an age to finally win the ucl that abrahmovic so wanted, i think we will win atleast one cup this season and most likely with a good cb added in jan finish top 3.
08 Nov 2016 14:09:16
we won 1 cup last season as well.
08 Nov 2016 14:17:11
but did not finish top 4 jred.
08 Nov 2016 14:34:23
CSM, you say you can't see these little signs that things aren't quite rosy yet you name half a dozen in your post.
The picking of favourites regardless of form while dropping and slating others for their first mistake.
His treatment of Schweinsteiger and even more baffling Mkhitaryan a player he wanted signed.
His slightly offish stance with the media at times seems to suggest he isn't as happy as he would have us believe.
I don't get his recent comments regarding Carrick for example. Apparently Carrick is too old to play every week while Zlatan who is the same age does even when playing poorly.
I've said before this is the least "Mourinho" styled team I've seen under Mourinho.
I get the feeling Mourinho needs a extended break from football, he seems to have lost some of his passion for it. He certainly looks weary, that glint in his eye when he used to say something cheeky to the press has gone. Personally I think he started to lose some of his love for the game at Real Madrid while battling Pep.
As manager of our club there is nothing I want more than for Mourinho to be a success, but atm I'm not convinced they will be.
08 Nov 2016 15:13:46
i said there were issues but also signs that things will get better you said signs that it will all unravel so the question
While zlatan's selection is something i question but his fitness cannot be equated with that of carrick, zlatan is a freak of nature, i won't be surprised if he is one of the fittest in the current team, something i cannot say about carrick.
Schweinsteiger was a bad signing who did not exactly shine bright under lvg especially with his injury issues and his miraculous back to full fitness for germany, pep had issues with his fitness and mourinho seems to have issues with him too i would trust the manager rather than a player who was doing a wta world tour when the team were fighting for fa cup and 4th place and then got back to full fitness when world cup comes around, if you can't respect the club i don't see why the club manager shouldn't return the favour, given that mourinho basically told him that he is not needed in summer yet bastian has struck around and it is not love of football or man utd.
Also what exactly is a mourinho styled team, we need better defenders for a better defense and there is only so many players you can buy in a window. He played good football with madrid where he was expected to, now he attempting to do the same here . The rest of the stuff is conjecture and i am pretty certain you are not a psychiatrist so we will have to wait for the season to end to see how it shapes up.
08 Nov 2016 15:25:35
so shappy said there are signs it will unravel
csm thinks there are signs it will get better.
maybe your both right.
08 Nov 2016 16:05:38
jred we both hope i am right but only time will tell.
08 Nov 2016 17:26:03
I think jred has just nailed it.
I'm not saying there aren't signs of improvement, there clearly is.
What I'm saying is alongside that improvement there are a few potential issues that in the long run may rear their ugly head and potentially derail any recovery.
So far I'd give Jose a 6 out of 10, he has improved us, but we are a lkng way from being good enough. I am happy for him to continue to try and get us there, but I'm not going to turn a blind eye to potential mistakes or oversights.
I think calling out a young players 7 games into his return after nearly a year out injured is a poor thing to do. Have a private word certainly, but don't drag him through the mud infront of the worlds press.
Maybe Mourinho's right, maybe he's wrong. But history tells us he doesn't do well with youngsters. Remember he sidelined De Bruyne at Chelsea due to his poor "attitude", no other manager has questioned his attitude and he is now probably the best player in the league. You don't reach the top without hard work and a decent attitude. Lukaku the same, Sturridge the list goes on. Many of the young players Jose has managed suffered under him and flourished elsewhere.
And if you want to look at our club atm, a familiar pattern is starting to emerge.
08 Nov 2016 18:39:55
I think one of the eds i think ed002 said de bryune wanted certain assurances about playing time which jose wouldn't give which is why he was sold, lukaku again had some issue though i don't remember if it was about anything to do with jose, i think ed002 said there some at Chelsea still don't want him, jose isn't there now so i don't see how that issue had anything to do with jose.
08 Nov 2016 20:18:49
shaps
some good points in there pal, makes you think a bit.
08 Nov 2016 21:50:48
Fergie did same with pogba.
09 Nov 2016 04:58:56
and he left ken, cost us a 100 mil to buy him back .
so not a great example.
09 Nov 2016 13:16:52
Did de bruyne and lukaku not leave? That's the example I wad making.
{Ed002's Note - For very specific reasons.}
09 Nov 2016 17:24:19
yer all top players .
pogba cost a 100 mil, how much for the other 2?
09 Nov 2016 17:42:18
Now? If both were sold i'd expect about 125m.
09 Nov 2016 17:42:18
Now? If both were sold i'd expect about 125m.