22 Aug 2016 13:54:19
Championship side Wolves have signed Cameron Borthwick-Jackson on a season-long loan from Manchester United.
I think its a good move for the lad to get more game time, hope he comes back next year ready for OUR first team.
22 Aug 2016 14:14:10
That just leaves perriera. I hope he gets a loan move too.
22 Aug 2016 15:48:46
I though both of them could get some minutes in the current season but probably they would develop more on a loan. if pereira stays I would love to see more of him I belive he has tons of potential.
22 Aug 2016 16:42:58
I've said it before, but we are going to be doing a Chelsea. The youth team is going to be a cash cow, not for moving talent into the first team. Maybe a random one or two will make it, but it seems we have realised that the old ways are just good for the sentimentalists.
Whilst we can spend £30m+ to sign virtually any experienced professional for any position (young or old), how can you justify an 18-19 year old inexperienced youth prospect to play ahead of them in the most competitive league ever? Our youth are for emergencies only now, we have wised up I think. Mourinho plays the same team week in week out, unless it's a cert.
I was lambasted for saying the youth LVG supposedly promoted won't get a look in - but it seems I am being proven correct. I'll be amazed if CBJ pulls on a Utd shirt again. McNair, Wilson, Blackett, James, Riley, Powell what happened to them? Maybe even Lingard, TFM and Rashford now as they are drifting down the pecking order as I type.
If you can buy any car in the world, why would you drive the unreliable, untested and cheap one (99% of our fan base want to see Ibra over Rashford, or Miki over Lingard)? Football as we knew it has been killed by money, I hope people can finally get off the idea of Busby Babes and Class of 92 being what we are about now, we are about money and success, youth development is a tiny factor and will be geared towards money now, not building or supplementing first teams to any significant level.
I don't like it, but it makes perfect sense. Money over heart now I'm afraid.
Unless Rashford gets games he will not develop, which means when Ibra does go we will buy an £80m replacement as it's too risky gambling on youth, Rashford will not get games and then there is a lottery about whether he will develop on loan, CBJ won't I'm confident of that, how do you spell Bertrand? (How many Chelsea players developed for the first team? )
22 Aug 2016 17:32:10
I agree with you Beast to an extent but I truly believe that CBJ (and possibly Rashford) is going to be one of those players that will make it, IMO he has progressed a lot more than players you named above.
22 Aug 2016 17:46:18
Tbf, it's going to be pretty hard for CBJ to get in the team with Shaw ahead of him.
22 Aug 2016 17:47:47
beast i agree 99% will always want the superstar name.
22 Aug 2016 17:51:23
CBJ is a good prospect but he has a big task in developing to displace Luke Shaw. I'd have liked to see him on loan in the PL but there can't have been any takers. Rashford is a different story. Zlatan and Wazza are older plus he can be an impact sub whilst developing at the club.
22 Aug 2016 17:56:19
That has to be one of the biggest overreactions to a player going on to a loan i have ever seen, CBJ was not going to get much chances this season unless we could get rid of rojo and darmian and by the looks of it, they are staying, last season he got game time bcz shaw was out for the season, can't see that happening again. So is it better for a player to go to a club which will give him game time or should he stay at utd and make bench, if he stayed u would have been 1 of the guys complaining he doesn't get game time ahead of shaw.
Now onto the list of players u have mentioned, mcnair is not good enough for utd, or should we expect someone to be given game time bcz he is from our academy, same with blackett and wilson scored a grand total of 5 goals in 25 apps for a team which was 1 of the highest scorers in the championship, Reece james was sold last season to wigan who were in league 1, so even a championship club didn't want james but we should have kept him according to u.
Lingard started the charity shield and would have played in the pl games but for his injury, these are mourinho's words not mine. Where do u want to play TFM right now, he and rashford will get his chances when europa league starts. And u seem to be forgetting both are 18 year olds, so still have to be protected. Zlatan was bought bcz we wanted to make sure martial's and rashford's progression won't be stopped, had we not signed him we would have had to sign someone like kane or nobody, in both cases u would still have complained either about stopping rashford's progression or putting to much pressure on him.
22 Aug 2016 18:19:44
CSM - Do me a favour a read my post again forgetting that it was written by me.
I have never said McNair, Blackett, James etc are good enough for Utd. I am saying that I was criticised previously for saying that was the case and I am now being proven correct THEY ARE NOT GOOD ENOUGH AND NEVER WERE - LVG was sacrificing short term success on people not good enough but many praised him for at least "giving youth a chance". I was criticised for pointing this out, I'm talking 20 disagrees to 1 agree style as usual with these types of posts I make.
These young players that most of our fans are desperate to get games often don't think further than that, they say X, Y, Z should play and you would think we could pick 18 players to start a game. We are virtually all guilty of it. Rashford should play, so should Miki, Martial, Ibra, oh and Lingard has done well so he should play, Mata has quality and then Rooney is our captain. That's 7 players that "should play" for 4 positions. Then we get to midfield, Herrera needs games, Schneiderlin, TFM should get games, Pogba has to play, oh and Carrick can keep things ticking, not to mention Perreira, Schweiny, Depay that all needs games for one reason or another.
There is no room for youth at elite clubs for the most part.
Ibra was signed to make us competitive upfront and to add that X factor, a handy side benefit means that there is a 1-2 year window where Rashford maybe doesn't get too disenchanted (if he believes the same BS you do and I did), but if we really think about it who isn't going to want to sign an £80m superstar when Ibra leaves? Rashford won't have the experience to lead the line still and Martial will be untested as he will be a Left sided attacker primarily by then, those will be the things people say.
The only way Rashford becomes the main striker of Man Utd is if he does a Pogba.
I was guilty of thinking Ibra would be ideal for Rashford's development, but I hadn't thought about it properly. Training with him every day will be great, but he can't do that on loan with inferior coaches and facilities can he? If he stays (which looks likely) he isn't getting enough game time as a striker because realistically Rooney or Martial will start ahead of him up top in Ibra's absence imo. But even if not Ibra will start 80%+ games anyway barring bad injury. In 2 years time are we really going to say 'Rashford is ready to start for Utd week in week out', or will it be the flash £80m striker we have just signed that plays and we all want to see because Rashford has done a Hernandez or maybe even a Macheda?
Yes I know Rashford is better than Macheda, but the point is how often will we see the guy?
22 Aug 2016 18:24:20
Beast - I'm sorry, but I can't help but disagree.
Had we been pumping young players into the first team throughout the past few decades I'd be right behind you - but as it is we haven't really developed any players that were worthy of being in the first team since the class of '92.
CBJ might prove to be good enough in the future and there's every chance that he will come back into the first team fold after his loan - but Blacket, McNair, Wilson and Powell are hardly examples of Jose destroying our youth players.
Blacket couldn't cut it in the SPL and Wilson and Powell looked average in the Championship. McNair wasn't bad - but good enough for the first 11 (now or ever)? I don't think so.
Even with SAF at the helm players like Macheda, Ravel, Eagles, King, De Laet, Fryers and Campbell had limited impact as they weren't good enough whilst players like Pique, Rossi, Pogba, Bardsley, Foster and Shawcross couldn't get a games and had to go elsewhere before finding their feet.
If this highlights anything it is that our youth set-up simply isn't good enough and the way we integrate the few youth players that are good enough into the squad as a club (in no way just under Jose) needs to be addressed.
22 Aug 2016 18:32:07
Way too early to conclude all of that Beast Imo. The squad is bloated right now so there would be little opportunity for the likes of CBJ and Wilson. i'd rather they get regular first team football and an opportunity to prove themselves than sit on our bench, at best. I believe Jose will prefer a smaller squad next season when we've been able to move on a few more squad players - I'm happy to judge him then on whether he uses players of that ilk.
I agree on Rashford, he's too good to go out on loan but needs games to develop. Its a shame he's not been given any minutes so far, I wouldn't mind seeing him come on for Martial on the left for 20 mins as he was effective there for England in a cameo. I'm hoping he's given starts in the league cup and Europe - if so its down to him to perform and if he does, down to Jose to make better use of him going forward.
TFM is an interesting one, still very young but would be good to see him tried in some cup games too.
In all honesty, most of the others are either too young/ not ready (Tuanzebe? ), not good enough or would get more out of a loan move at present due to squad size (Wilson, cbj, Adnan, Pereira) .
We have a few exciting talents and over the next 24 months we will see if Jose is capable of developing them. Too soon to judge yet though.
22 Aug 2016 18:40:32
Redseven and CSM - maybe my initial post wasn't as clear as it should have been apologies. I don't think these young players should be playing, we are in a new era where elite clubs have too much money and youth players are fighting an uphill battle - it's too competitive to risk it voluntarily now. I have written at length previously about my views on Elite clubs being banned from snapping up young talent because they don't harness it anymore in most cases. They let it rot or use it for money making purposes which often cripples youth at it's knees.
For example (just my view) :
If Rashford was a Southampton youth product we would probably sign him in 3 years time for £50m, but as it happens he will probably be signing for Southampton in 3 years time for £5m. I know he is flavour of the month at the minute but 12 months ago 99% of us hadn't heard of Rashford, in 10 years time I fear he will be on that long list of players who could have been special but due to lack of development never made it. Only chance for him is if he get out on loan now or signs for Southampton (equivalent) .
22 Aug 2016 18:42:19
HoneyBadger - Definitely too soon to judge mate, just sticking my neck out (I just love that guillotine, haha) . I would like to see more of TFM and Rashford, just don't think we will unfortunately.
22 Aug 2016 18:43:05
99% is a bit steep jred. Maybe it seems like that on a forum like this, at times! I know plenty of United fans who are still proud and passionate about bringing through youth. And I'm sure that all but the grumpiest of fans (sorry Beast) feel a special connection to Rashford because he came from the academy.
22 Aug 2016 18:46:38
beast maybe u need to read u r post again, u seem to be lambasting utd for not giving kids enough opportunity and using a list of players who are not even good enough to play in a top half epl team to prove a point. Barring mcnair none of them impressed even a bit of the first list u mentioned, none of the names u mention were ever proclaimed by any supporters to be future utd players, again barring mcnair none of them even got more than 2-3 games, so you saying lvg supporters somehow praised him for that is stupid, lvg was praised for the fact that when injuries came he picked kids from reserves to fill his ranks rather than going the usual let's play a first team player out of position that most managers do every time.
On the BS part, we have played a grand total of 3 games, so calling that rant of yours jumping the gun would be an understatement, come jan if rashford or tfm or lingard have not played more than 5 games then yes that post makes sense, but making a proclamation about not following the so called utd way 3 games into the statement is pure rubbish.
22 Aug 2016 19:06:40
beast
i think your spot on, on this .
hb
yer that should be 99% on the site,
22 Aug 2016 19:10:05
In my ideal world football clubs should only be allowed to play players born within a certain local catchment area (with a cap on players outside) . We aren't living in my world, or the 90's anymore. We haven't been a youth developer for a generation now, not at the elite level anyway - so we need to stop looking at idealism/ sentiment and simply accept that youth will not be given a chance any more imo at the very top.
If you are good enough you will play is what most of us believe/ d, but frankly that is not true anymore because if you spend £30m on a player there is more pressure on a manager to play them over a youth product - they have to justify the spend to their boss. Sponsorships/ Broadcasters even friendlies demand the high profile players to play, the game is rigged if you are a youth product of an elite club (unless you do a Pogba or are very very very lucky) .
If I had a son at 14 I would choose lower lever EPL over Elite level every day of the week for their long term development/ future careers prospects, that simply shouldn't be the case. I'll leave this now as I'm bleating on like an old goat.
22 Aug 2016 19:13:36
Beast your first post definitely doesn't say that and to me seemed like a rant at mourinho for no reason, but that is your opinion so it might not be wrong, but i again will disagree to certain extent, kids won't get too many chances to prove their worth unlike before but the exceptional ones will still make it at the big clubs, even lingard who wasn't really highly rated seemed to be in manager' plans. i don't think i would be wrong in stating that since pogba and morrison, rashford and TFM are the best youth prospects we have had so let's first look at their progression before claiming things shall we.
22 Aug 2016 21:52:26
I do agree its harder than ever to integrate youth prospects, if that was the point of your post. Its far more competitive these days both within the squad and in terms of the number of clubs who are now as good if not better than us. So its a bigger risk to play the youngsters.
Where I would disagree is that I still think there is merit in making use of the youth system and improving it where possible. Not only can it prove rewarding financially - from players sold or transfer fees saved on signing squad players - I still think there's something special and beneficial about having a small core of youth products in the first team squad. Players who know and trust each other from being through the same system. Players who the fans (in the most part) can get passionate about watching them develop.