09 Nov 2015 20:07:09
Just to add to my earlier post in regards to LVG's comments about wingers. We have Memphis who LVG should be striving to develop and I would be no means call Pareira and Lingard 'slow'. Januzaj could be an option to return who is certainly no slouch and what then becomes of Mata who has been consistent thus far? It is also worth remembering LVG sanctioned the sale of Di Maria, Nani, Welbeck etc who all had pace.
On top of that we have Young who has been on the form of his life over the past two seasons yet he is only considered a 'utility man'. Why is that? Because he doesn't have a fancy name? Valencia - who is a right winger - is also able to fill that void. I am sure Wilson would be happy to try his luck out wide in order to get some game time also. In the youth team there is a lad called Gribbin and Demetri Mitchell also.
The former is probably still too young (16) but the latter is very pacey as well as being talented. If LVG can't work his system around these options then is the system really working or is his need to splash cash a desperate attempt to try justify his 'philosophy'? Who should be brought in that will be available in January, not overpriced and ultimately a step up on what we have got? Is it worth pushing the likes of Lingard, Pareira, Januzaj and other youth prospects further down the ladder rather than attempt to develop them?
09 Nov 2015 22:06:27
You mean the Same Nani and Welbeck that were the two most frustrating players to wear a Utd shirt?
Jesus Maze, would you really like to see Nani and Welbeck back at the club?
It's laughable the stuff you say sometimes,
09 Nov 2015 22:05:50
I really don't know where to start with this post. Your hatred has driven you insane, hopefully some professionals and probably a bucket load of medication may bring you some solace.
I'm just sat here re-reading your post over and over in total disbelief, I mean really? really?
09 Nov 2015 22:21:26
In this set up I think both Nani and Welbeck could do well.
09 Nov 2015 22:46:26
Why Shappy what is wrong with it?
09 Nov 2015 23:21:07
I cannot stand maze"s posts most the time but that one was a reasonable one.
Maybe not the Nani and wellbeck part. But the list of "wingers" we have and the fact we seem to need a new expensive fancy name for them to fit.
10 Nov 2015 00:02:41
I would like to add Zaha to that list of pacey wingers that were sold. He could have been a decent shout for an option on the right as well.
10 Nov 2015 06:54:12
Quite amazing that from the negative one! ! 😆😆.
10 Nov 2015 06:54:14
Maze
Nani and Welbeck, how are they doing now? To try and criticise LVG over Nani is rather amusing. He flopped that many times we couldn't get rid of him especially after being given a lucrative new contract (like Rooney) by a former manager. Welbeck has done what since moving?
I actually think LVG has got the sales of Nani, Welbeck and DiMaria correct and maybe LVG wants a higher standard than he has available to him right now.
The only name of interest in your post was Demitri Mitchell, who I first saw in an England youth game about 4 years ago, he looked good and I commented on here about him, however has he developed? If LVG is looking elsewhere it suggests he hasn't sufficiently to push for the first team, yet at least.
Your post does read as yet another criticism of the manager but that shouldn't surprise anyone too much.
10 Nov 2015 09:24:09
On the contrary Red Man all I said was I feel in this system Nani and Welbeck could be assets. LVG has got the best out of Young and for me Nani has more ability that Ashley so if LVG could have got him going then great. I also feel Zaha could be a good option for this side at the moment. I saw the young lad Mitchell play online a few weeks ago and he has certainly not regressed. Lacks a little defensively but that is not his forte.
10 Nov 2015 09:16:42
What is wrong with it?
Well you want us to win titles? Well which of our wingers do you currently think would start in a team that would be challenging for the top honours?
Yes LvG wants pace, but that pace than has to have the quality to have an end product.
Your using him selling Nani and Welbeck as a stick to beat him, well if you were the manager of a Bayern, Madrid or Barcelona would you have been knocking our door down to take Nani and Welbeck off our hands?
No you wouldn't as quite simply they weren't good enough for where we want to be. So you come across like rather silly in slating a manager for moving on players who wasn't good enough.
Di Maria wanted to leave and did his best to force his way out of the club. LvG could have made him stay but that wouldn't have benefitted anyone. So again you can hardly slate the manager over that.
You complain that we should be playing Valencia and Young as our first choice wide men, really? Everyone complains when Valencia starts at RB as they believe that not only can he not defend but when he goes forward he lacks any end product, so there really is little point in playing him as a winger as people like you would only come on here and state he isn't good enough. As for Young I can see a point, but unfortunately we have had several injuries and he has been pit to better use else where. I am very happy with the improvement in Young under LvG but if we are honest he still isn't good enough to be first choice in a team challenging for the title and the UCL. A great squad player but not first choice.
Then we move onto the youngsters. Januzaj has been given several chances under LvG but has so far failed to take them. The fact of the matter is that he is no better now than he was 2 years ago when he made his debut. I think us fans have built him up in our minds as a better player than he is due to him being the one bright spark from our time under Moyes. But in 35 first team appearances he managed 4 goals and 6 assists in his debut season. Two of those goals though came in his first start. Last season in 21 first team appearances he didn't manage a single goal or assist. He has left to go to Dortmund on loan and has so far only started 2 out of a possible 16 games for them, both in the Europa league. In appearances this season he has 1 goal and no assists. So his record currently stands at 5 goals and 6 assists in 72 appearances, hardly phenomenal. That's not to say he can't go on to become a great player, just that he isn't performing like one yet.
Lingard has been being played recently so I'm not quite sure why you mentioned him. He is a good player, but not yet a great one. We can hardly expect him to carry us through to titles this season.
Pereira for me is the best of the three and the one with the best chance of having a long term future with the club. He has had a few games but agains is very young and can't be expected to carry us through games and to titles just yet. Also long term he is someone who should be playing more central.
Now although all three aren't slow players none of them are particularly quick, good dribblers yes, greased lighting no. The fact that the top three quickest players in our squad are Smalling, Rojo and Shaw shows we lack speed in attacking areas.
You point out players like Gribbin and Mitchell in our youth system, but if players like Pereira and Lingard aren't ready to take on the burden of being a key offensive outlet yet then these lads certainly aren't.
Memphis is a great talent, but as Ed002 stated before his transfer that it was too early for him to move and we shouldn't expect too much from him too soon. You mention why doesn't LvG play him, yet you felt he should be dropped right up until he was, and now he has been your questioning the manager on his decision to drop him. Your just being bloody minded and disagreeing with every decision the manager makes because you don't like the manager. Depay has been dropped and rightly so, being dropped in part of the learning curve and will hopefully lead to him improving and us having a great player a year or two down the line. But that doesn't help us now.
I wish you would stop talking about the amount of money he has spent, any manager who came in would have had to spend a similar amount and on similar players to what we have bought. We needed new defenders as we had to move on Vidic, Rio and Evra. We needed to bring in a new midfield as we hadn't signed a midfielder prior to Fellaini in 2013 since Anderson in 2007. We needed to replace Scholes, Hargreaves, Anderson and Cleverley. We also needed to bring in a new striker and wide players as Rooney and RvP had gotten old and had started to decline. Nani, Young and Valencia weren't of a high enough standard and also needed replacing.
Had Di Maria worked out we would be significantly better off, but he didn't and that is just one of those things. We have replaced several players in our defence, we probably need one more top CB, but we have the best defensive record we have had in over 10 years. So well down Mr LvG for that.
Our midfield is probably the strongest we have had since we won the UCL in 2008. Again well done Mr LvG.
We have signed two of the brightest young forward talents in world football in Martial and Memphis, but we still need more quality and experienced forward players to challenge at the highest level. So well done on bringing in the young lads, but still work to be done. What is so wrong about LvG saying this? Its true every word of it. Your just too blinded by hatred, you can't see the wood through the trees.
Is that in depth enough to show how silly your post sounded?
10 Nov 2015 11:04:27
Shappy you have just written a massive spiel yet you have completely missed the point of my post.
The point of the post was that LVG is now crying out for pace in the wide areas yet he deemed it fit to clear out players like Zaha, Welbeck, Nani, Di Maria et al without adequately replacing them or having an option he was happy with before the window closed. Do you think Barcelona or Madrid etc would let players leave without being content that they have players or will bring in a player to replace them? No so it is a mangerial error.
As for Depay, yes he deserves to be dropped and I for one am glad that he has. But like Ed002 said the lad wasn't ready for the PL and LVG knew this yet splashed the cash on him anyway and was happy with him when players like Bale were available albiet at expensive costs. Wouldn't that money have been better spent on someone that could improve the first team at the moment when the manager himself is crying about not having enough pace?
Our midfield should be the strongest it's been since 2008, it should be even better given the funds that have been spent and if you can't see that you must be blind. That's like saying my new car is as good as what my old one was in 2008 as I have just purchased a new one is it not? You say I don't give him any credit but you seem to overlook his many, many flaws constantly.
10 Nov 2015 11:39:22
Maze,
He didn't clear out Di Maria, fact is Di Maria didn't want to be there and wanted the move to PSG, that's where he wanted to go the summer before last .
As for Depay, maybe it would have been better if he stayed at PSV for another season, but if we hadn't bought him PSG would have and if he'd gone on to be a star there you'd be the first one on here to slam Van Gaal for not buying him when he had the chance .
10 Nov 2015 11:46:43
Maze, you act as if buying players is like popping down the local supermarket, just pick the one you want off the shelf and take it to the till. These are human beings we are talking about here, there are many factors to being able to make a transfer happen.
You mention Bale, Bale would have cost us around the 100m mark or four times as much as Depay cost. Hardly in the same bracket financially.
Yes he moved on players who had pace, no one is denying that. But they all struggled to produce and end product. What is the point of having a player with pace to open teams up if they can't produce once they have?
If your seriously going to stand there and argue that players like Nani and Zaha would be winning us games every week then there is little point discussing anything with you.
We replaced Nani with Memphis a player of a similar standard atm, the difference is that Memphis is young and has a chance to realise his potential and massively improve, on the other hand Nani was never going to get any better.
Not quite sure what your getting at with the car comments. The midfield needed replacing and he has done it. My point is you can't bitch about the money being spent as it was needed. The only player who LvG has signed who probably wasn't needed was Romero, but he cost nothing so no harm, no foul.
So the point of your post was that LvG should have kept players who weren't good enough as that would mean our team would be better now?
See what I mean by your post made no sense. If he kept Nani and all the others then young lads like Lingard and Pereira would have no chance. We had far too many players who weren't good enough and you spent many a day on here bitching that those players weren't good enough. But simply because LvG has sold them you've changed your mind so you can whinge about the manager as you have a vendetta against him.
As for my view on the manager I have always been clear, He was the best available option at the time. He has done some good things and some bad things. No manager will get every decision right. Sir Alex was one of our best ever managers but every season you could easily list 10 mistakes he made through out the season. Some were big, others small but mistakes all the same.
The only really legitimate complaint you can have against LvG is the style of play isn't within the traditions of our club.
Other than that he has overseen a massive change in playing staff, moving on those who weren't contributing enough and brought in good replacements, he has tighten up our defence and made our midfield one of the strongest in the league. He has brought in great youth prospects and given chances to the ones already at the club.
He as achieved every aim the Glazers have asked of him, he got us UCL qualification at the first time of asking, currently we are top of our UCL group and only two points off of top spot in the league. His style of play atm leaves a lot to be desired, but it is effective, which considering the flaws still within our squad is probably the best we could expect. It is more important that we are in a title race this year and finish in the top four than it is that we play entertaining football.
Also I find him quite entertaining when he is dealing with the press. But that's just a personal like, some will love it some will hate it. I'm just glad he isn't a boring yes man trailing out typical sound bytes that could be about any team any where at any time. He isn't bland, and that for me is a good thing, even if he is occasionally a bit cringing. lol.
Consider the process of building a team like that of building a house. First you must build a solid foundation for which everything else can be built on. This is your defence. Then you need to build the walls, these are key to how your house functions. This is your midfield. Then you build the roof to keep out the rain. This is your forwards. Now you can't build a house in any other way than foundations then walls then roof, and you can't build a team any other way than defence then midfield then forwards. You can't judge the quality of a house until it completely built. Atm we have no roof, and your complaining that every time it rains you get wet. You will have to wait until the work is finished before you know whether the t house is good or not.
10 Nov 2015 14:11:17
Great reply my man 😆😆.
10 Nov 2015 18:42:36
Maze
Dimaria was terrible and is not doing much better at PSG. He is the type that does well when surrounded by great players and is not expected to carry the burden. It does also help when he had guys in a team that needed double and triple coverage to allow him room to run around.
10 Nov 2015 11:52:06
Bilko - Why did he let Di Maria go without bringing in adequate cover if he wasn't happy with the options at his disposal? Surely that makes no sense.
As for Depay he may well turn out to be another Anderson given that he has apparently moved too soon. I hope Depay works out well but I for one would have rather got in proper quality as now the manager feels he has depleted options out wide.
10 Nov 2015 11:52:06
Bilko - Why did he let Di Maria go without bringing in adequate cover if he wasn't happy with the options at his disposal? Surely that makes no sense.
As for Depay he may well turn out to be another Anderson given that he has apparently moved too soon. I hope Depay works out well but I for one would have rather got in proper quality as now the manager feels he has depleted options out wide.
10 Nov 2015 12:21:56
Shappy I feel like I am wasting my time here. You have just almost copied and pasted what you have wrote above yet you are not adressing the point I made which was why would you let players with pace go, not replace them and then whinge about it when you need some pace?
Madrid would never have let Di Maria go if they felt they still needed him. I also wouldn't go as far as saying Memphis is at a the same standard as Nani at the moment because let's be honest Memphis has been crap and at least Nani had his moments of sparkle but that is beside the point.
I don't know why you keep saying the money spent isn't important because it has been. Do you think honestly LVG would have done better than Moyes if he wasn't given those funds? I am not denying money needed spent but I think after the amount that has been spent we deserve to be at least kept awake during games.
After spending the most in Europe over the past 18 months we are still lacking a CB along with a winger with pace according to the manager. That in my opinion isn't good enough. It is either poor judgment on the managers part to not replace the attributes of players who have left or he didn't allocate the funds given to him to strengthen key postions he needed strengthening for his philosophy to work.
10 Nov 2015 21:25:06
I give up, I think you may be retarded. Or at least simple.
I explained several times why LvG let those players go but you seem unable to read, or unwilling to.
Usain Bolt has pace, should we sign him?
We need players with pace but also the quality and consistancy to regulary effect the outcome of the game. None of the player let go fit that discription.
So we get back to the total pointlessness of your post. Your talking bobbins and just spouting Anti-LvG hate. Why don't you try something new, maybe he is behind all these terrorist attacks around the world, or maybe LvG shot JFK, or he started the recession, he rigged the election or maybe he is secretly planning the total destruction of the world.
Because all of that is more credible than half the waffle your coming out with atm.
10 Nov 2015 21:51:58
Maze
You would let pace go if the player didn't want to be here, if they didn't fit in or just were not good enough. Pace on its own is only one attribute. You wouldn't replace them if the player that would improve the team isn't available. Straightforward stuff really.
Nani had moments of sparkle five years ago or whenever it last was, he has gone and it was a good decision to get rid.
LVG has a history of being able to make decisions at major clubs and yes undoubtedly would have done better than Moyes without the funds. Not that Moyes didn't spend though, just there didn't seem to be any plan, Fellaini panic last day, Mata when we needed yet another number 10 didn't we.