02 Nov 2015 18:58:00
Out of the players LVG has 'refreshed the squad with' during his £300million bonanza which ones do you feel are long term? Martial for sure, Depay assuming he picks up (he will benefit from a new manager I am sure), Darmian has been a little suspect but I like him and of course Morgan. We could add Shaw to that list (who was targeted pre LVG) assuming he recovers well from injury and maybe Herrera (again earmarked pre LVG) if he hangs around but that in my opinion depends on if LVG stays or goes.
Di Maria has come and gone as has Falcao. That leaves players like Rojo, Blind, Schweinstiger, Romero etc who for me are not long term at all. So in return for investing his £300million LVG has realistically brought in around five long term players to club. Is that really something to yell about? Has he really done enough in terms of 'refreshing the squad'?
Yes we shouldn't get wrapped up in the numbers but when you consider the large fees, mammoth wages and the expensive costs to clean up mistakes (ahem Di Maria) it is hard not to. The £300million figure is based on fees alone and I feel had some smarter coach with a proper vision have taken the reigns when LVG had done we would be looking at a completely revamped side who would express that on the pitch. £300millon spent on fees later and we are still wanting in some places - unbelievable.
02 Nov 2015 19:14:43
There have been some mistakes but also some real progress. DDG, Shaw, Darmian, Smalling, Jones, Schneidelrin, Depay, Martial, Lingard, Pereira, Janizaj (yes, really) all have years ahead of them. I wasn't convinced about Rojo but like what I a, seeing right now. Schweinsteiger has been a worry for me, he doesn't look able to get through a full game and I thought he would be more dominant. On the whole though it's a strong squad and I don't think we need too many mor eplayers to be a top team.
02 Nov 2015 19:36:17
AJH I totally agree with you that we have a strong squad but that is largely due to the nucleus of what was already here before LVG took over. Defensively I can barely fault what he has done and I am pleased to see players like Smalling come to the fore.
What I am getting at is in my opinion the £350million was poorly spent aside from a few players. Theoretically we could have had nine £40million top players come through the door or seven £50million players for the what we have spent. To think we didn't go down this route yet are still short in certain areas given the vast sums spent is pretty remarkable.
I really feel had someone with an actual vision taken over the club and not a coach with a fairytale 'philosophy' we would be in a better position in regards to what has come through the door over the past 18 months or so. I see you also mention Januzaj (who I still am a big fan of) whom I have watched at Dortmund a few times. Granted he hasn't played every minute but when he does he is enjoying himself and is being told to express himself on the pitch. If LVG stays I think Januzaj may also consider his options unfortunately.
02 Nov 2015 19:36:45
AJH - I'm a little confused when discussing signings under LVG - you bring up DDG, Smalling, Jones, Lingard, Pereira and Januzaj.
The point made in the original post was that LVG has invested money poorly in the squad bringing in a number of players who will more than likely have no longterm future at the club. Spouting off a list of players who arrived at the club before LVG does little to counter that (nor does it really serve any purpose in the discussion) .
The £300m originally quoted seems a little off (it's more like £250m) ; but I agree entirely with the point. LVG's signings have been very poor. At this point I find it hard to find an argument that any have been successful yet and can only see four of them (Martial, Shaw, Darmian and Schneiderlin) making a real impact at the club.
02 Nov 2015 20:14:13
Maze further down the page you said it was 350m now its 300m, which is it? I think you'll find its closer to 250m which means we would have got 5/6 players at the 40/50m mark. Not the 7/9 your suggesting.
We have signed Shaw and Darmian who will be mainstays in our defence for years to come. Rojo and Blind are great squad players adding depth to an area we were painfully short. Thus we needed them. Romero was a feeebie so we didn't waste any money on him.
In midfield we signed Schneiderlin and Herrera who will be long term options long after LvG has gone. Schweinsteiger has added his experience and leadership in a squad that has lost a lot in recent years. He may or may not be worth it, it depends on how you view it. But the fee was around 7m which is nothing in todays market, so in terms of fees spent he hardly registers.
We then signed Di Maria and Falcao, both proven world stars. Both didn't work out for one reason or another. One was a loan so wasn't a massive expense in terms of fee. The other we recouped a large proportion of that fee. Martial and Depay are both bright young stars, one has settled quickly and other has struggled but there is plently of time for both of them to become successful. If you want to believe the press there is some reports that Madrid may look to sign Depay next summer amd if they do we apparently want 64m for him. Its a load of tosh, but if you want to believe it then we'll make a 30m profit there.
Romero - free
Blind - 14m
Rojo - 16m
Shaw - 35m
Darmian - 12m
Schneiderlin - 28m
Schweinsteiger - 7m
Herrera - 29m
Depay - 25m
Martial - 36m
Di Maria - 56m (44m sold so cost us 12m for the season)
Falcao 4m loan fee.
That comes 262m before we take off the 44m we got back for Di Maria. So its 218m no where near the 350m you stated earlier amd still a fair way off the 300m your quoting now. Even if you include the add-ons (which means the playet has been a success) then your still at around the 250m mark.
But as I stated all the players bought were needed, so I really don't see your point about money being wasted.
Who has he wasted money on?
02 Nov 2015 20:17:04
I am not LvG's biggest fan but the cost of players has nothing to do with him.
02 Nov 2015 20:19:40
People were drooling over ADM and Falcao seemed like a risk worth taking but sadly both were poor. There was a huge buzz over Schweinsteiger but again he looks like a short term fix. Rumour has it we tried to sign a number of big names but couldn't prise them away so had to settle for other choices. As for no proving themselves yet, let's give them a chance.
02 Nov 2015 20:57:23
Shappy you are failing to understand that to move players on especially expensive players like Di Maria we have to pay the full amount of his long term contract also. Players like Di Maria should have been long term buys and if there was any incline in that not being the case we should have stayed well clear. In terms of the figure as far I was aware I thought it was closer to the £300million mark (below I used £350million as that was the hypothesis you and fresh were working on) .
I think it is very early to say Shaw and Darmian will be mainstays in our defence for years to come. Both have shown promise but Darmian has also been a little suspect and is still adapting and as for Shaw on paper he should be a 'mainstay' for years but after his initial injury plagued season along with his now broken leg I still have my reservations on the impact this will make on his development.
'He signed Morgan and Herrera who will be long term players when LVG has gone' why when LVG is gone? If he signed them and they are good enough shouldn't they be first choice now? If LVG sticks around after this season Herrera will not as he will have options. As for Bastian, like AJH I haven't been impressed sadly and his earnings outweigh what he gives us in my view. Rooney - a legend of this club - gets slammed for his wages yet Bastain can't even finish a game and earns more.
I think you will find the Falcao fee all up for the season was closer to the £16-20million mark so I have no idea where you have plucked £4million from. You ask who he has wasted money on and I have stated above on the players I think are long term good signings and who are not so please read the original post.
To spend such vast sums and still be lacking in key postions such as up top and at the heart of the back four is scandalous in my view.
02 Nov 2015 21:30:58
We also got hererra who is an amazing player.
02 Nov 2015 22:45:30
I'm well aware of that fact, I also read the info Ed002 was kind enough to post.
The loan fee for Falcao was 6m euros which was about 4m sterling. The rest of the cost which you attributing is his wages added on top.
I don't know if you know this but all professional footballers recieve wages for playing.
The disscussion was on transfer fees and not all other costs in involved, unless you know what each player is getting paid, including their bonuses, the agents fees and legal fees paid in accuiring the player, and of course the other insurances and medical costs as well? Maybe you could produce a spread sheet?
This is why Ed002 avoids all disscussions on finances as we don't know the figures so disscussing it is pointless. Its like discussing the furniture of a boarded up house which no one has ever been in. No one knows what the **** their talking about.
As for the signings being long term? They all signed contracts that go beyond LvGs so if they see them out it is safe to say they will be here longer than him and of some use to the next manager.
You talk about the amount of money we have spent on player but you fail to appreciate that Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra, Carrick, Scholes, Giggs, Fletcher and RvP were all in their 30's or injuried to the point of never reaching their old level. So all needed replacing.
Thats not even considering the players such as Nani, Anderson, Cleverley ect ect who never reached the required level amd also needed replacing.
03 Nov 2015 07:06:37
If Maze wants to talk scandalous then perhaps we should discuss the scandalous contract given to Rooney at a time when he was starting to decline. We are stuck with him for years on large wages and as Ed002 said, that if we want to sell a player we would have to pay up his contract, recently valued in the press at £45m. Instead Maze and co take aim at LVG who in my opinion has made the right moves with the squad but is two top quality players short. He has moved on those to make the squad leaner and we are seeing the likes of Tuanzebe on the subs bench. He has brought in a talent like Martial as well as give Lingard and Pereira hope.
The problem mentioning Rooney is that the decision was made by Moyes, who was defended to the end by the same ones calling for LVG's head.
03 Nov 2015 08:58:54
Yes you are right Red Man Bastian and Di Maria deservedly earned more than Wayne for their commitment and achievements at the club.
Wake up mate you are just trying to beat Moyes with a stick at every opportunity.
03 Nov 2015 09:31:27
RedMan
How does that compare to Bastian's 300k a week as the highest player in the EPL. Do you believe there was/is anyone in world football who would be offering him that sort of contract this past summer.
When Rooney was renewed he was 28 years old and had Chelsea at our door who were ready to snap him up and pay whatever and club was in an impossible position with Fergie retiring a new CEO and completely unstable.
03 Nov 2015 10:17:02
GCU/Maze
It was clear SAF was trying to push Rooney to the exit before panic set in and he was given a new contract. Was SAF wrong?
03 Nov 2015 10:49:55
What has that got to do with Di Maria and Bastian getting the biggest financial deals in the history of the EPL. One can't finish a game and the latter took the easy road and headed for Paris.
03 Nov 2015 10:58:41
But Rooney gets a new deal in the peak of his career, plays fantastic in a slack Moyes 11 then gets ruined by LVG's pragmatic football and all of a sudden it is scandalous to have in the team.
Wow.
03 Nov 2015 11:16:53
Maze are you sure Rooney played "fantastic" for Moyes? The season we finished 7th? I wouldn't say Rooney has had a fantastic season since 2011/12? Long before he was given a new contract.
I didn't completely disagree with giving him a new deal when Moyes took over, as we didn't want to be seen as losing SAF and Rooney in the same summer. It would have been bad for our public image, but it should have never been more than a 3 year deal.
As for how much Bastian and Di Maria are getting paid, do you not think if Rooney was on less then they would have had less cause to demand so much? It might not have made a massive difference but it could have saved us maybe 50k each per week.
It was handled very badly, but we can't put the wages or length of contract Wayne was given nor the wages being paid to Bastian or what was given to Di Maria at the door of Moyes or LvG. They indicated the players they wanted, it was Woodwards job to sign them and he decided to offer them those wages. So we can hardly beat any manager over the size of fees paid or the size of wages paid to players.
03 Nov 2015 11:22:48
On your last sentence Shappy why don't you tell that to Wneger I am sure he would disagree.