27 Oct 2015 13:04:55
My god this page is turning into a spiral of self pity and whinging little bitches. I'm with GDS and to an extent Red Man. If the glass is half empty then it is indeed also half full.
Yes no one is saying the style of football we are playing is great, or indeed how we want our team to play. But we are two points off of top spot.
Most of you stated that you thought we would be lucky to get 5 points in October due to our tough run of fixtures, if we win or draw against Palace then we will have got your 5 points or even surpassed it with 7. And yet you still whinge. I said I thought we could get 10 points in October if anyone has a right to moan then its me as we didn't meet my expectations, and yet I accept the situation and move on.
Do any of you really think your constant moaning gets you anywhere? Are you deluded enough to believe in the social media hype that if you say it loud and often enough the world will listen?
I appreciate everyone has a right to an opinion but you don't have to say the same point over and over and over again. We get it, we can read and we understand your point. I just so happens that we disagree with it, and I have a right to. The only people who will be persuaded to join your point of view by you stating the same point over and over again are sheep. People without the ability to think for themselves and just follow the crowd. Who's baaing loudest and I'll join his flock.
Our club was in a shambles when LvG took over. We had a youth system that was broken and not fit for purpose, we had a squad of ageing players past their best, youth players who were never going to reach the level required and players in-between who never made the leap to top tier players. We had a new chief executive who had no experience handling to running of the club. We were out of the UCL and playing poor football, the players were fighting and arguing and stories of dressing room discontent were a regular in the daily press.
And yet some of you are surprised it takes more than 24 hours to sort that out. This isn't football manager. This is real life, maybe some of you keyboard warriors need to step outside every now and again and experience it.
Since LvG took over he has moved on over 25 players, only 9 regular first team players are still in the squad from the one LvG took over and two of those are Mata and Fellaini players who had only been at the club for less than 12 months before he took over. That's 7 players in the squad today who were a part of our last title winning side (DDG, Jones, Smalling, Carrick, Valencia, Young and Rooney) . Of them only DDG, Carrick and Rooney were first choice in that title winning team, the other squad players.
So we have three players who were a regular part of our last title winning team from 2 and a half years ago. Of them DDG may or may not be here long term. And Carrick and Rooney have declined and won't last much more than a season or so in the first team at best.
And yet with a team that is between 6-18 months old people expect domination, winning titles and playing great football. What planet are you on?
We are progressing nicely, we have had a massive turn over in playing staff, the dressing room has become water tight again, Old Trafford has become a tough place to play again as seen by City's total defence tactics. We are hard to beat and have started to even get a few goals (We've scored 3 goals in 5 of our last 10 games) . We are two points off of top spot and have played most of our toughest games already.
There is much to be pleased about, beyond our slow playing style what else is there to be unhappy about?
Nearly all of us have been levied with the term "glory supporter", It means we only support the club when we are playing well and winning things. let's see how many of us really are glory supporters.
Sorry for the rant, its just getting so depressing on this site atm. If it gets any worse then I'll have to stop calling you the glass half empty brigade and start calling you wrist slitters.
For gods sake if your that unhappy call the Samaritans.
27 Oct 2015 13:30:57
The glass is 3/4 empty for me though when it comes to us at the moment.
What should we talk about Shappy?
LVG - done
Captain Rooney - done
Youth/Big Picture - done
Results - done
Woody - done
Transfers - done
Individual performances - done
Future Managers - done
The only thing that changes week to week is our opposition and how we perform in games. The optimists keep saying its part of a rebuilding plan and we will either win things or improve the entertainment value in time. It's been over 50 games now and I see no sign of us improving on both counts.
Any manager could turn us into a hard to beat team, Moyes would have done this if he knew it would be tolerated. We would have lynched him if he threw our attacking play out of the window like LVG has. People think us being hard to beat is some kind of achievement, it is simply robbing Peter to pay Paul. We should be both by now, we should be strong at the back and dangerous with the ball. Instead we have a squad full of utility men, players not settled and unsure where their counterparts will be.
Granted work to be done, things are never perfect, but the rate we are going I will be older than LVG by the time we actually have something to cheer about. Every newspaper, every neutral pundit and a lot of our own football educated fans think the performances are sub-par and we have turned into Boring Utd. Even if we win the league: are the 38 games being bored to tears really worth those brief moments of thinking "yay we are champions", we could easily finish outside CL spots this year as well?
When the time comes to crow about success I will be on here, but I have a right to bitch and moan about wasted opportunities, same as everybody else. You and others have the right to delude yourselves into thinking this is all part of some master plan. It isn't, the manager is winging it, which is why we keep seeing the same types of performances and the poor forward play (whoever is playing) .
If anybody is happy about Man Utd at the minute then they need to seriously question what they want from football, because we are dull, wasteful, biased and almost considered a joke in the football world. Life time to build, moment to throw it away, that is what we are doing with Woody and LVG at the helm.
27 Oct 2015 13:35:43
Shappy, I have stopped posting for the reasons you have highlighted, but this post deserves a response. Opinions vary, and that is fine. But the whinging, self obsessed attention seeking numpties who dominate this site these days have spoilt it. After the Jred quitting incident and the Man City love in when they won a few games, followed by the meltdown because Liverpool signed a very good, but temperamental and unproven in the EPL manager by the name of Klopp, this page has turned into a Manchester United bitch fest.
I come on here to talk about all things United, good and bad. But it has become negative in the extreme. Taken over by fools who have nothing better to do than seek attention, and come back and say "I told you so" at every opportunity.
I still enjoy reading some of the posts on the site, but I can't be bothered to post any more because there seems to be no such thing as a constructive debate or discussion any more. Just the same old carp rammed down our throats day after day.
Anyway, that is my version of a whinge over.
Good post anyways Shaps.
27 Oct 2015 13:43:52
Agree 100%.
27 Oct 2015 14:08:51
Seriously Beast mate, if you won the lottery you'd find something to complain about. I pity you.
Remind me again how many days was Rome built?
You want something else to talk about then fine, as you seem to lack an imagination I'll come up with something for you.
How about you tell us about your earliest memory as a United fan? What was it that made you fall in love with our club? Who was playing that day?
Betty, I'm feeling like that too. My posts on here are becoming more sporadic as there seems little point in banging my head against a brick wall. I actually don't want everyone to agree with me, I come on here for a debate. A serious clash of opinions. I want someone to say something that will make me look at our club from a different angle and hopefully have a greater appreciation for our club. We used to have some great debates, even when we had Kloot (Rainfishtrombone) and that Scouse numpty Blair Maine, and Sydney before he go a real job. lol.
Jred probably had the size of it and jumped out before it got really silly. I won't be taking a break as he has as quite simply I refuse to let other people stop me doing the things I enjoy. But I think like you I will be more selective over which posts and which posters I reply to.
27 Oct 2015 14:50:31
Ya'll very temperamental today, maybe some of you could do with a break.
Me, well I'm going to stay cool and watch the meltdown.
Peace :-)
27 Oct 2015 14:53:00
Best post i have read for a long time shappy . Agree 10000% with what you say. I to get fed up with the same people esp 1 who has disagreed with you today constantly moaning about the same things every day. some people don't like LVG, rooney, ed W, the glazers and the way we play, but is it really necessary to moan every single day. Like you i am upbeat about the future. I do have concerns about rooney but have no concerns about LVG and the direction he is taking us.
Beast i live in derby. THe day you say something i agree with i will invite u over and we will have a convivial evening i my expense. Not holding my breath though.
27 Oct 2015 15:00:30
I had a really long post written, but I simply can't be bothered to post it, as it will be met by the usual disdain from the blinkered brigade. Each to their own, maybe my negativity is ruining things or is repetitive, but what I find almost as boring as the football I see each week, is the desperation and delusion of some people on here trying to glorify rubbish.
World Peace, help the poor, more important things in life than football, everyone be happy, it will all be ok in the end. Surely those bog standard obvious phrases that some people tend to say, should earn me an agree or two. Sugar coating the pill isn't changing the boredom factor of what our club produces.
What makes me laugh is even the positive brigade caveat their posts saying stuff like "we all know its slow and boring, Rooney isn't doing it, etc etc", well that wasn't the case until recently. Without people like me saying these things early doors they would almost be revelations now to some of you, yet you use them as "obvious", "boring", "repetitive". Funny how that happens.
27 Oct 2015 15:00:35
I agree with you entirely Shappy. Sometimes I actually log on, read the first 2 lines of a post, then know who it is from, so I skip past the whole thing to the next post. It is just the same people saying the same thing over and over again. I skip not because I disagree necessarily but mostly because it's just the same poster saying the same thing again and again. Whichever way you look at it, we were playing the team that started the weekend top of the table. Not Villa who are bottom or Chelsea who are struggling. I don't like our style, but I know bitching about it changes sod.
27 Oct 2015 15:07:29
Herbie, save me a seat, mate. And a draw :)
27 Oct 2015 15:07:48
Allan - Thanks for the offer. I guarantee with your back against the wall you would want me fighting in your corner rather than those that adopt the, "it will all work out ok in the end" approach to life, with absolutely no evidence to back it up.
It's ok to be optimistic and to rely on a bit of luck. But spade calling is something I do well at in life, next time I'm in Derby I'll post something excessively positive and we can have a good night out. I'll leave things for a while now as I think I have more than made my point of late.
27 Oct 2015 15:13:11
Shappy,
Pretty similar to the point I tried to get across yesterday that went on to the other pages, maybe it came across as a bit of a ramble, you are king of the longer post and can get your point across a lot better than me so well done, great post.
Betty,
Don't let them win! I feel like I am fighting a losing battle at the moment, the things people say on here are nothing like the things I hear from my United mates or down the pub, people are a lot more positive and a little surprised at how well we are doing this season, you come on and here people are acting like we are in the relegation zone.
Shappy,
To answer the question you asked Beast, Bruce's two goals against Sheffield Wednesday in 1993, I have been pretty lucky, I had been to games well before that but that is the moment that made me fall in love at 7 years old and if anything I should be one that has been spoilt, I don't remember getting relegated and the Sexton years but I know all about it from my dad, I appreciate what he has been through. I then bought video after video about the club and then every season after until videos didn't exist anymore and knew pretty much every result and every goalscorer from each season.
27 Oct 2015 15:24:06
You got it Noucamp, bring the munchies.
:-)
27 Oct 2015 15:56:59
I have to agree to some extent - perhaps I don't have as high standards as others or perhaps I just don't let it get me down as much but I'm not as negative as the majority right now. Clearly we want to see changes to the playing style but looking at the bigger picture I feel we are heading in the right direction (if a little slowly at times) . Look at Chelsea or Liverpool or where we were 2 seasons ago - there are a lot worse positions to be in than 2 points off top and still in the Ecl.
I find the pages a little depressing at times which is why I have extended breaks to keep myself sane 😊 not that I disagree with many of the negative points made but I do feel that there are just as many positives considering our recent transition.
27 Oct 2015 16:09:13
Beast but what is your point?
You don't like the manager. Fair enough that's your opinion. Some of us do like him.
You think he's a clown. Again your opinion but I disagree.
You don't like the football. Fair enough many if us agree. I myself would like to see more zip. But I appreciate what he's doing.
It took Fergie how many years to build a title winning team. We're trying to do it in half the time.
27 Oct 2015 16:30:32
Shappy
Reading your verbal barrage, Some might think LVG inherited a championship caliber team. on that basis moyes inherited a disaster then.
Moyes was sacked because we finished 7th and according to everyone he underachieved so we get a new guy who spends 150 mill and we give him 17 months now and counting and guys like you suddenly change your tune and start talking about all the fundamental stuff that still needs to be fixed. He said word for word I need 3 months.
Finally your post goes to show how you just don't get it by your own admission when you thought we could get 10 points from those fixtures, I guess the glass is half full in your world and blinded by optimism.
I said a long time ago 5 points would be decent outcome depending on who is available for city and ourselves when we play them (Look it up) .
I think we will do well to get a draw at Palace and if we end up losing that is 4 points from 4 fixtures taking into account a home game against a City team, Who was missing their best 2 players. imo a huge underachievement, you can call it glass half full, i say not good enough.
God help us if people think 4 points from a possible 12 is progress in our first real test of the season.
Liverpool is suppose to be in crisis and they sacked their manager after having drawn at Everton and Spurs. If they win this weekend and we lose they are 3 points behind us and you think we are making progress?
Yourself and few need to stop thinking they have a high ground on united related issues and their positive opinion is worth more than people who don't agree with them.
I guess there will always be guys, who will find an explanation why we did not perform, watch that space.
Westbrom, Watford, Leicester, West ham, Bournemouth next 5 but i am sure you will write a few pearls of wisdom on why things did not go as planned against these goliath of european football clubs as we are still rebuilding and off course the rest are all the polished article with world class youth programs and star studded squads and long term managers who have been there for many years :)
Let me guess you think we will get 12 or 13 points from those games right? lol.
27 Oct 2015 16:32:36
I don't like the manager
I don't like the system
I don't like how our standards have slipped
I don't like how far our expectations have slipped
I don't like the double standards shown to certain players
I don't like how we are happy with draws all of a sudden
Most of all - I don't like how people stating opposing arguments are called "obvious" yet up until a few weeks ago those saying this would vehemently argue the opposing view.
Pos poster - Chips are good for you
Realist poster - No chips are bad for you.
2 weeks later,
Pos poster - obviously chips are bad for you, we all know that, say something else otherwise you are boring!
27 Oct 2015 17:10:10
Wow Shaps taking on the wrist splitter brigade head on. You forgot mate that talking positive and sense is punished severely in these parts of the world. You talking positive is like a player falling out with LVG.
Anyhow I totally agree to each and every word that you have said. People seem to forget that we are Man Utd and not Fergie Utd. His style of attack is now a thing of the past. That will not be seen at Old Trafford for a considerable amount of time now. Each manager has his own style of play. LVG has his. Next one will have his style of play. Several of us, me included, have grown up watching Fergie United. So naturally we want our teams to play in a certain manner.
It's time we understood- Fergie time is over guys.
We are very lucky that there are smarter people, people with actual brains who are at the helm of affairs at United. They know better than all of us combined. And I see our club progressing in the right direction. Performance vise we are not yet there, but believe, performances will come.
27 Oct 2015 17:30:15
Hahaha Beast that's quality, and pretty much bang on the button.
But hey, can't we all just hug and move on.
:-)
27 Oct 2015 17:36:26
Beats Manager has his faults, but according to you he stealing a living, most so called positive posters think he has done a decent job not great but decent.
System is slow and at times boring, but according to u this is the worst u have seen us play which surprises me as last few fergie years were pretty bad football wise, very few were complaining then and i don't think u were either.
What standards, we are 2 points off the top, last season we were aiming top 4 as we needed UCL back, u could look it up it is called learning to walk before running.
Most expect a title challenge if not a win and a hopefully a cup and decent ucl run, which is what we have been mostly used to or do u expect to win a treble every season.
What double standards, most dislike rooney bcz how he has played over last few seasons and the wages he is on, other than him no one is playing as badly, maybe depay, who most feel was rightly dropped.
No one was happy with the draw, just unlike u most don't think it is the end of the world and unlike u most fans didn't think that city were devastated with injuries as if they forced to play the reserves. Which if u remember we were forced to last season but u still expected best possible results.
But ofcourse u are the realist poster while any one who thinks lvg is doing a solid if unspectacular job is so called positive poster, i see it more like we are the realistic ones while u seem to be a negative one may be try cheering up a bit.
27 Oct 2015 17:41:58
Some of these replies to the original post highlight the patronising and condescending attitudes of a few of those who seem to occupy the 'top table' on here. Why do some seem to think they are better than others, or that there opinions are worth more? Can't t wait to say "I told you so", or "I said weeks ago blah blah blah". I guess its just me that is too old for it all now? It's becoming more like run of the mill social media now, where people just want to moan about things. Key board warriors who hide behind the anonymity of a user name and think they know better than everyone else.
It's such a shame, because this site is so much better than that. The Eds do a great job and bring some great knowledge and information, and there are planty of intelligent and insightful posters. But, alas I feel it has become too popular in some ways. There have always been negative and positive posters, which is how it should be. But the quality and popularity has lead to the content becoming more repetitive and negative.
Early evening is approaching now, so it shouldn't be too long until you know who comes on and tells us all that we are wrong, and he knew we were all wrong last year.
{Ed007's Note - People need to get back to talking about football instead of talking about actual posters and stop with the personal remarks and snidey comments just because of who has posted something.}
27 Oct 2015 18:05:19
Beast
I might disagree with you on some things but that is a classic post LMAOF.
4th we are mate come end of the season but that will considered progress from 4th. We will get there once we get Bale, Ronaldo, Messi, Varrane, Iniesta. It takes time to rebuild from the ashes of a brunt down house and 500 million more should do it.
Have some patients mate we have been saved or would be in a relegation fight.
27 Oct 2015 18:34:24
Bond, yes I agree with that. Unfortunately I have just done that very thing myself at the end of my last post, so for that I apologise. I would like nothing more than for this site to return to being what the name suggest - good banter between United fans. We may have different opinion, but we should all want the same thing here - for United to be successful AND entertaining. It's a shame that so many seem to want us to fail just so they can say I told you so.
That's me done for a while now. Take care everyone :)
{Ed007's Note - Let your batteries recharge and you'll be back ranting in no time, take care mate.}
27 Oct 2015 19:12:21
Cheers Bond. Thinking back, I took a few weeks off at about this time last year for similar reasons. I actually think the negativity worse at this time of year. Perhaps, and I do actually mean this, its something to do with the whole transfer window thing. The site vets unbelievably busy during the summer window, and people are all optimistic because of new signings and whom we might buy. I think people get carried away with expectation and expect instant results because if the new faces in the team. Logic goes out of the window regards the new players settling in and the new team gelling together, and all that optimism immediately turn to disappointment when we don't win the first 10 games on the trot.
Maybe that is all nonsense, but I think there may be a bit of truth in there too?
{Ed007's Note - That makes sense to me mate.}
27 Oct 2015 19:51:15
Betty
The people with a view that we are performing well seem to attack posters who don't agree and on top of that always patronising.
When someone starts a post with " My god this page is turning into a spiral of self pity and whinging little bitches" in my view that is completely out of line and it deserves a response.
I wonder why people talk about how long they have supported united through the bad days and good days like the rest of us are/were any different.
It's all very patronising and yes if people are going to argue their case by being high all mighty and taking potshots at people who don't necessarily hold the same view then what do you expect.
I am not as negative as some around here but also in no way happy with what I see and do not see the incredible progress people talk about but will not be lectured to by this bs of good fan bad fan or we are mature and you are immature bs.
If it bothers people that much reading an opposite negative view, then don't read it and skip over it.
28 Oct 2015 00:32:09
Well said, Shahram.
28 Oct 2015 04:19:34
GCU,
What you just said works both ways, for 24 hours after the game on Sunday everybody who said anything good got a barrage about LVG, Rooney, tactics, even if their post was nothing to do with that. The more positive people fight back somewhat and the other people start moaning that their opinion isn't being listened to. Like I said, it works both ways, I for one am glad some of the more positive posters have got involved the last day or so as I was on the brink of going the same way as Betty, it's depressing and supporting your football team shouldn't be.