02 Oct 2015 10:31:01
This Memphis Depay bashing I think is a little short sighted. I think a lot of it comes from people looking at his stats from last season amd expecting far too much too soon.
There are several reasons he has failed to live up to that ridiculas expectation.
The first being expecting him to score 20 goals or there abouts. That is unrealistic. If he gets half that number he will have done well.
People getting frustrated with him trying to do it all himself. Well at PSV he was their best player and it fell on his shoulders to make the difference most weeks. He will still feel like he has to try and win the game himself.
Another issure is his defensive work rate. Well at PSV they set up in a manner that didn't require as much work rate from him. They played 433 so he had two guys behind him down his flank to do the dirty work freeing him up to concentrate on scoring and creating chances.
He is in a new team, with different team mates, playing a different style, in a different league in a new country. He is young amd only has a couple of seasons of proffessional football under his belt. Ed002 said that it may have been a year too early for him.
But I think the biggest reason people are getting on his back is the form of Anthony Martial. That has risen the expectation on Depay unfairly.
He is making a difference, his runs are crewting problems for teams and in trying to neutelise him they leave space fpr others.
Maybe he will benefit from some rotation, LvG has subbed him in the last 3 or 4 games, and dropped him against Ipswitch. But if he is to fullfil his potential he needs game time, he won't adapt from the bench.
Come on guys we are a club who makes great players, all great players have poor games on their way to greatness. Ronaldo was very patchy in his first few seasons often being brilliant and frustrating in the same move. But he only became the player he did by playing games amd learning amd improving.
Lets back these young lads rather than slate them.
02 Oct 2015 10:42:40
I think the majority agree Shappy and your point regards Martial is valid Imo. There only seem to be a handful who have forgotten that youngsters need time and patience and are ready to slate him already. Ironically its probably those same posters who would slate the manager if he didn't give youth a chance.
02 Oct 2015 11:14:28
I don't expect much of him but I do expect him as a professional footballer to be able to control a football which he rarely does with any success, then once he has mastered control he could work on his passing which is not good. His runs are few and far between, you only see a small amount of the game watching it on the TV and his movement isn't actually that great when you see him live. He definitely isn't keeping a starting place on merit - what will that teach him? Ronaldo became the player he is because he wanted it and worked his spuds off to get there with extra training etc. Memphis said he wants it but so far he hasn't actually put any effort in to get it.
02 Oct 2015 11:26:18
TOT66,
Memphis 'hasn't put any effort in' has he not? What a strange thing to say, you see him for 90 minutes a week, not on the training ground working hard to improve his game like such a young player should do and I have not heard anything to the contrary, have you? I am quite frankly embarrassed by some of the people on here writing off such a young player 3 months into his United career, it is actually making me a little angry. You don't think he can control a football? What was that skill he did on Wednesday when he took out two defenders with a wonderful first touch? If only he could control it eh.
He has weaknesses of course he does, his final ball isn't fantastic and he makes the wrong decision a fair amount of times, but people are comparing him to Nani already. Nani had all the ability but had very similar issues when we signed him but never kicked on, he thought he was Ronaldo and thought he had made it, 5 years later he was no better. If in 3 years Depay is still having the same issues with his decision making then I will accept he should have improved, he has been here 3 months for God sake.
02 Oct 2015 12:13:19
I haven't written anybody off have I? And yes his attitude towards training leaves a lot to be desired in some areas. You pick out 1 piece of skill from the last game but fail to recognise that for the rest of the game it wasn't good. That for me sums him up when he gets it right it is very good just needs to get it right more than once every 2 or 3 games. I just want to see him have to fight for his place and earn it through solid performances, he doesn't have to amaze me just needs to walk before he runs.
02 Oct 2015 12:23:49
TOT66, I rarely say this but you have no idea what your talking about. Memphis is one of the first in to train in the morning and normally the last to leave. At PSV he beat and set every training record possible. All the coaches told the youngsters to watch Memphis and follow his example.
That doesn't sound like a players who isn't working at improving.
He is young with that comes inconsistancy, sometimes his touch amd control will be poor, other times it will be sublime.
Yes he loses the ball far too often but then he loses it because he is trying to do something positive rather than pass the ball backwards or sideways.
LvG's worry about running at people and trying to attack teams is that you lose the ball more often than not. Without someone like Memphis running at defenders forcing them back and creating space for other players to exploit how would you suggest we score?
Have you forgotten that Giggs amd Ronaldo hardly ever had a pass success rate much higher than 80% that means one in every five passes was given away. That is the nature of offensive players, both Ronaldo and Giggs had the highest dispossession rate at the club during their time here, because it is players who run at the opposition who risk losing it.
Depay is just doing what they used to, bringing back the good old days as many want. He isn't as good as Ronaldo or Giggs were in their prime but he is as good as they were in their first few months in the first team.
I sometimes seriously question if people actually know what they want.
02 Oct 2015 12:41:48
What does a player have to do in order be regarded as performing poorly? For a lot of you just putting the shirt on automatically means Depay is doing well, it's ridiculous. He is underperforming, irrespective of age, value, experience etc etc, he is just not doing well. Same as Rooney.
Both of them will hopefully turn the corner, but can we stop making excuses. Nobody is saying that Depay was a waste of time buying, or he will be a flop. People like me are simply saying he hasn't been good so far, I had no real expectations as I don't rate the Dutch league and he didn't do anything for me during the World Cup, I knew absolutely nothing about Martial either. I don't hold them up to any special standard, just comparing them to any of the other hundreds of footballers I see play each week, Martial has done well irrespective of age, experience etc, etc.
Depay has been very poor thus far, hopefully he will get better, I wish people would stop jumping to extremes and look at this as it is, not what might happen, or excusing a player deemed worthy to start for his national team and start every PL game for us.
02 Oct 2015 12:56:24
shappy
Your whole post is complete tripe mate and you should stop trying to be football manager and using systems blah blah to justify someones shortcomings. Reading your post basically says we bought a lay sod who does not know how to defend and in his league was the guy who was allowed to be very selfish being the main man.
it is not that difficult to understand no matter what system you come from that hey that is your guy and you make sure you track back when they are coming forward or when they switch pick up the other guy.
I said yesterday i don't care if he scores or not and i would rate him higher if he had 15 assists than 15 goals this season. He is poor passer and makes very poor judgement rarely passes to an overlapping fullback, who has busted a gut to get up the pitch and when given options to allow someone else in because they are in a better position he chooses himself and an individualist.
If he can't figure out this is not the dutch league any more and at Manchester united he is nowhere near being the main man, that itself is quite worrying and speaks volumes I guess. The defenders in this league are seasoned guys mostly and everyone knows show him inside and pretty much guaranteed he runs himself into traffic and loses possession. A replica of what Nani used to do and infuriate so many around here to be fair he did try and put crosses in but generally 20 yards over hit lol.
Finally, everyone Please don't turn this into a loyalty discussion, I am a better fan than you are bull sh. t blah blah blah,
The whole discussion was about the fact his current form does not warrant him starting every game and young is better. There is an issue with constantly playing someone who plays poorly game after game, it communicates that it is okay and how do you get them to change and do things differently to improve.
02 Oct 2015 12:43:50
TOT66, sorry but I completely disagree with you.
First off, you're slating Memphis because he's inconsistent, it's as if you've never seen any youngster play the game before. The only way he will improve is by playing him, so be patient and get behind the lad.
Also how on earth can you comment on his attitude at training. Unless you are present at training standing next to lvg every day then you have absolutely no right to say he's got a bad attitude.
02 Oct 2015 12:46:49
One last point - Last year we can all hopefully acknowledge that Shaw was poor, this year he was a revelation. At the time last year the same excuses were banded about for Shaw, but it didn't change the fact that his performances for Southampton were not replicated in his first season for us. It's not evil or stupid to call a spade a spade and say somebody is not playing well, there doesn't always have to be excuses made for players and even then it doesn't change the end product we see.
Maybe Depay will be the next Giggs or Ronaldo, but so far he looks like being the next Obertan or Nani. When his performances change so will my assessment. Nani and Obertan are a lot older now and are still very similar to when they first started out by the way.
02 Oct 2015 13:12:36
It is madness the amount of nonsense some people speak. Depay scored a couple of goals in the world cup and looked a good player. He has scored 4 goals already and has a couple of assists plus we are just in October. How could anyone say he's been really poor?? Jesus christ get behind the guy and give him a break
02 Oct 2015 14:03:27
RedAndy and Shappy,
No I have not been present at training but I do know who works on the ground staff there and if they are telling me a load of nonsense I apologise but he apparently spend more time in the gym than on the pitch, players like Ronaldo and Beckham spent hours practising dead balls and striking a football, he doesn't. Either way I totally agree with Beast I don't dislike Memphis in any way, shape or form and accept that he needs time, I don't see how dropping him could do any harm if he is as determined as he says, it can only make him hungrier. I hate comparing players from different generations but as you have mentioned Giggs he may well have been inconsistent, but after his first appearance every defender in the league had some fear when they saw his name in the team sheet, I don't think you can say the same about Memphis currently. It was only 3 years ago that Hazard aged 21 joined the prem from a "lower league" and he had much more influence in his first 10 games than Memphis, I am certain Memphis will improve and will readily praise when he does.
BTW Shappy you have got some cheek saying i don't know what I'm talking about - I have read your posts mate.
02 Oct 2015 14:15:18
Beast, does your point about Shaw not support the view that we should not judge youngsters too soon and be patient while they adapt? I thought some people were overly critical of him last season tbh.
We all need to chill a bit on the subject, people are entitled to their views. Like I said the vast majority have been level headed and fair in their criticism. At the end of the day its the managers call whether to play him.
02 Oct 2015 14:37:58
I don't think Shaw was poor last year, he wasn't fit. For Depay, if he wasn't doing it on the training ground I think LVG would read him the riot act. As I said several times on the podcast, people get trapped in a specific moment and react accordingly. he has been inconsistent but clearly has huge potential, let's see LVG get the best out of him
02 Oct 2015 15:15:52
HoneyBadger - Yes that is my point, maybe Depay will be great next year or even next week. But at the moment judging his performances they have been sub-par save for a couple of easy games against Brugge (similar to the Dutch standard and way of play incidentally).
It's exactly the same as excusing Rooney's poor form, with things like, "yes he is a Utd legend and is about to break goalscoring records, so how can you criticise him", that doesn't change anything about the game we have just seen, a poor performance is a poor performance.
AJH - My point above applies to Shaw, Januzaj, etc etc. We can only judge on what we have seen, this is why I go crazy about LVG, often people argue "the performances will come in time, he is building something", says who? It's just wishful thinking until it happens. Shaw turned the corner in my eyes, whether hampered by fitness, confidence, or whatever his performances last year when he played were not good enough on the whole.
I actually think everyone agrees regarding Depay (aside from people who judge performance on stats only which makes no sense), the difference is people read between the lines of what people are saying on here sometimes rather than just taking it at face value.
Depay has great potential, he has flattered to deceive thus far, but should of course be given time.
02 Oct 2015 16:35:06
Cant argue much there Beast, fair post. Some of us get a little protective of our younger players, there's nothing wrong with an honest critique its often as subtle as the language used that winds people up. I'd rather say he's being naive or inconsistent personally (due to age) rather than use words like poor or crap - which make it sound like his quality is being written off. It does sound like 90% of us agree on Depay so perhaps we should move on and discuss Rooney for a change 😆
02 Oct 2015 16:39:03
TOT66, I think it is a very unlikely scenario that Depay will choose to spend more time in the Gym, irrespective of what your "source" tells you. Depay, and all the players, will train wherever LvG and his coaching staff tell him to train. Do you honestly think Depay could just waltz into training and say "right boss, I'll give footy a miss again today. I'm off to the Gym again"?
Gym training is part of the overall training regime obviously, but your post implies that Depay chooses the gym over football training. I seriously doubt the manager would allow that.