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08 Sep 2015 05:41:49
Ed as well all know we (probably reportedly) failed to sign our first choice targets like Bale, Neymar, Muller and Ramos. We have chosen not to sign the next level of our targets below the above mentioned names (Pedro, Otamendi).

Do you think LvG trusts the youngsters to fill that gap? McNair is the only CB close to the 1st team now that we have let Blackett go.

Pereira and Wilson are struggling to make the bench.

Do you think LvG has made a goof up by letting so many players go and having to depend on youngsters and he doesn't seem to be playing them too. The 1 youngster he played has also been loaned out.
(There is a difference between playing youngsters out of choice and out of necessity)

{Ed001's Note - the club never signed them because they were outbid, it is not because the youngsters are trusted. That is why you went out and desperately outbid yourself a few times to pick up Martial, as LVG is not convinced by the potential at the club.

LVG is not convinced by the youth academy products, like many within the club. There is a feeling amongst those many that complacency had set in and the academy has been left behind and now the club is suffering as a result. I would expect the club to look to buy again in January to fill any gaps in the squad, if needed, rather than rely on youth.

Goof up, no. Simply because LVG would only have fallen out with those that weren't playing anyway, so it is best to clear them out so the friction between them can't build up and become an issue.}

Agree0 Disagree2

08 Sep 2015 06:53:53
Ed could you expand on the comments on the youth team set up, what exactly is wrong with it?
What are we not doing that others are, I think many would find this of interest.

Many thanks for the hard work.

{Ed001's Note - basically you did not move on from the 90s. Your players are not getting the technical coaching that most other teams are now providing, so the players are not improving as they should. The sports science is a problem across English football in general, so being poor in that area is not handicapping you compared to other English clubs, but the coaching is. There were recent steps taken to improve things, Moyes wanted to rip it apart and rebuild it on the model Everton have been using, basing it more on improving the technique of the players, rather than still on the old fashioned fitness based methods. Unfortunately Man Utd have been one of a number of clubs guilty of using the academies as a money making scheme, charging parents to have their kids in the academy, for instance and running coaching clinics for money etc, rather than focusing on finding and moulding the best talent. It has not been so much of a problem as it could have been, as people in the game still think of the Man Utd academy as the one which produced the Class of '92 and so there are always clubs queueing up to take young players on loan. That has allowed them to play games and improve themselves as players.

The experience they gained enabled them to improve as players, but also to increase their value when they were sold, which masked the issues as it is difficult to change something which is making money on a consistent basis for the club. While the club have been working on changing things in the last few years, it has been a slower process than it should have been due to trying to keep the moneymaking aspects running smoothly. It takes about ten years for the full effects of a change to really show, so this slow evolution that is being undertaken could end up being a 20 year process!}

08 Sep 2015 08:46:42
Haven't the under 18 done reasonable well over the last 5yr's?

08 Sep 2015 10:08:01
I saw that City U14 beat our equivalent 9 nil. Whilst we have been squeezing every commercial pip and add more commercial partners than players, City have built an infrastructure , as I have said on here for a long time. Our own players were sending their own kids to City. Thanks to the Ed as it is what I have believed for a while on our academy and commented before that the early seventies attitude was another bunch of babes will just come along and they didn't and it appears the same with the class of 92.
Looking at what City's youth sides are doing we need to get our eye back on the ball quickly because I for one don't care about yet another commercial partner, I want to see our club sort its youth system out, spend some money on our ground and facilities, yet I think the owners will have to sell up for us to see that. Hope that is in 2017 as the Ed said and that we get someone who will invest in the long term structure of the club including the youth. I do wonder what impact LvG , with his experience of what Barcelona and Bayern did, will have on changing the youth set up. I also read a very interesting article on Klopp's focus on youth and it was refreshing. Changes are needed

08 Sep 2015 10:58:28
One thing I will say in Moyes defence Red Man is he always maintained from the start we had to upgrade our youth set up and change the way we are bringing our players through the system.

In another note have you had a look at these new super facilities City have invested in? If I was a young lad thinking about my career, where I would get the best possible start and what was on offer City would be a very tempting proposition.

08 Sep 2015 11:33:40
I'll give you that one Red man.

08 Sep 2015 12:02:32
There is an interesting artile by Andy Mitten on the topic. Presents some good balanced perspectives on the United academy vis-a-vis the City academy.

08 Sep 2015 12:31:13
Very insightful ed. Hopefully a centre back and a right winger get on the list then! Rumours of Felipe Anderson around again this morning, would love the winger to be him, he is pure class with potential too.

Do you think LVG could be persuaded to sign a centre back or is he happy with his options? I know that you said it was Sergio Ramos or no-one, will this change?

08 Sep 2015 12:45:36
Red Man,

That 9-0 only tells half the story which you have neglected to mention, there was an under 15s tournament that all of the best United under 14s players went to play in at the same time, meaning it was City Under 14s first team against mostly our 2nd team. There are examples of where City have moved ahead of us with the infrastructure, but that one game certainly is not one of them.

08 Sep 2015 13:26:29
GDS

The U14 score is only one part of the overall picture. I thought the information the Ed provided was informative, we have taken our eye off the ball in terms of the youth set up. I found it interesting that lvg brought in Fosu Mensah who apparently has a real chance.

In answer to JMB and on something the Ed said re the shake up of the youth academy by Moyes, my understanding is that it was the other way, in that Moyes wanted them to be more physical than technically trained and that was not welcomed, unless of course the person who told me that was wrong.

08 Sep 2015 13:59:42
Ed001 thanks for the detailed response , I thought the coaches always kept up to date on methods by looking at what happens abroad etc,, is it on the ball technique, game awareness that has been lacking?
Are the coaching staff not up to it?
With what I assumed was a state of the art training complex I thought all would be well, what changes did they make?

08 Sep 2015 14:16:42
The Academy is the life blood of our club. Without it think of all the names in our history who would have never have been?

What would the world of football history be like if players such as Best and Charlton had never been?

Beckham, Giggs, the Neville brothers, Scholes and Butt are notable players in recent history but there has also been Blackmore, McGuinness, Stiles, Foulkes, Edwards, Bruce, Hughes, Kidd, Platt as well as Goater, Fletcher and Pogba.

As well as the countless others, some made club history, some made world history, all of them have added to the world of football far more than they got out of it.

It is these names and these players who the next generation has to live up to, we made Charlton, Best, Scholes and Edwards four of the finest players to grace the game.

That is the history of our club, that is the very thread that holds the fabric of our club together.

And we cannot allow that to slip anymore. It pains me when fans are more excited by a multimillion pound signing than a young lad from the youth academy seizing his chance.

The greatest players in our history have been created by us.
Not bought in but brought through.

And that is what we should be aiming for again, otherwise we are no better than the other money grabbing merchant clubs.

If we are going to have a campaign, it doesn't matter who owns the club, just as long as they maintain the clubs traditions. The green and gold should be for move investment in money and time in the youth system, rather than who signs the checks.

08 Sep 2015 14:34:39
I think at the top end of the table in England especially you won't see another 3-4 youth product players breaking into the team ever again at the same time. With the competitive nature of the league and having 6-7 teams all vying for top 4 spots and 2-3 teams chasing the title, there really isn't anytime to blood youngsters in sadly. The difference between the league title and 2nd could be 1 point. When we introduced the class of 92 in. We were going toe to toe with one team every year. You could afford to lose more games and still win the league. You can't do that in these modern times. I always think with 7 subs there should be at least 1 or 2 kids on the bench to bring on.

When I was in school 12 years ago my mate left when he was 16 and signed for Arsenal. The majority of the major clubs wanted to sign him. He said when he got over there the intensity of the games were appalling. Though they were technically better then the lads he played with in Ireland, they had all been in the academy for years. They were all smug little gits who thought they'd made it already. Long story short that was 12 years ago. They've even more money nowadays without ever accomplishing anything. You can string a semi decent season together and your wages are doubled. Late bloomers don't get a chance and early bloomers are millionaires before they've played 50 games.

I'd love to see squads bolstered with academy products. Let's hope with our squad being thinner than usual, 1 or 2 get a chance to stake a claim.

Sorry that post got away from me a bit haha

08 Sep 2015 14:35:14
I work literally, 500 yards from the emptihead, and as much as I dislike City, the facilities they have built around the stadium are second to none. I would be hugely surprised if any side in the world has anything even nearly comparable. The academy stadium is as good as some stadiums I have been too in the championship and even premier league, if slightly smaller. It's truly awful to see each day, but you can't help but feel hugely impressed as you drive by and see what they have done, to what was a complete sh*t hole.

08 Sep 2015 14:22:41
red man
ed1 seem clued up on youth footy

08 Sep 2015 18:41:03
Jred

Indeed he does however I maintain what I was told on Moyes wanting to move to more physicality from technical training and I was told at the time it didn't go down well at the club. This was also reported in the press I think in several outlets but I heard it elsewhere. I am in agreement with Ed other than that , especially that the set up needs a shake, a big shake. Whilst we have agreed commercial deals with abandon, City have put in place an infrastructure for the future which is attractive enough for our own players to put their kids in, that is worrying.

08 Sep 2015 19:39:42
redman
like i say the ed is normally pretty good with the youth football.
ive no reason to doubt any of his post to be honest .
i don't tend to pay to much attention to the press.

09 Sep 2015 01:40:52
Redman I remember him saying in a press conference that he wanted the United system to bring through Wayne Rooney's rather than buy them from other clubs.

I think Moyes could have done a good job with the youth, just look at the way he nurtured Januzaj but that didn't happen so now we move on the the great Dutchman who has yet to put much faith in an aspiring youngster on a regular basis.

09 Sep 2015 13:45:21
JMB

Lvg is not blessed with the longevity and winning history at United of SAF so cannot take a long term view of playing young players if it risks the club not making the top four. Lvg has to win now. Add to that they have to be good enough and so far very few have grabbed the chances given to them.

I know what I was told about Moyes and the Academy and it was cross referenced in various press outlets but you and Jred keep believing in him if you want







 

 

 
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