06 Sep 2015 11:07:36
Not to keep banging the Rooney drum but reading down the page I have now seen people question his goal record. The guy will be our all time leading scorer so his goal record therefore is better than any other player who has ever dawned the red top. Fact.
Folk need to keep in mind that Wanye has played for us through the good times, the bad times, the great times and the abysmal times and has given his all almost every time he has taken to the pitch. This kid has played in the toughest league in the world his entire career and with the influx of foreign players and tactictians that league has become tougher and tougher each passing season.
He has been earmarked by defenders since he was 17 as well as played in the midfield or out wide for large parts of his career and is now on the verge of smashing records for England and Untied at a time where defensive unity is a massive part of our game and especially in this league.
Would Charlton have scored as many as Rooney playing in this generation, playing out of position, going through transition years and squaring upto the best defenders from around the globe - not just the country - on a weekly basis? I'm not so sure.
06 Sep 2015 11:26:59
Not going to debate Rooney with you, but Charlton scored his goals from midfield. Fawn over Wayne all you like but don't suggest he is better than Charlton. Ridiculous
06 Sep 2015 11:49:50
I am not fawning over Wanye AJH I am just saying that for me the generation and ability of defender as well as tacticians Rooney has came up against is far superior to that of Charltons. It's an opinion mate.
06 Sep 2015 11:52:21
And also Charlton played up top as well as midfield mate so it would be a little misleading to say he scored goals from just midfield.
06 Sep 2015 11:53:44
Rooney is the hero United deserves, not the one it needs right now. :P
(WE need a striker but maybe its not a 30 yr old Rooney)
06 Sep 2015 11:55:27
Yeah bobby played in midfield. In an era when defenders were brutal and could get away with tackles that now a days would see retrospective bans.
Not disputing waynes done well to equal the records. But as someone said he's only broken 20 goals a season twice. Imagine how quickly he'd have got the record if he scored more.
06 Sep 2015 12:16:56
It isn't a fact just because you say it is. Well not unless your a fat spanish waiter apparently.
His goalscoring record is up for debate. Any striker who can be given the chance Wayne has had this season and who has missed so many of them can have their record looked at and scrutinised.
He has only managed 20 goals in two of his 13 seasons as a proffessional, on average he scores 15 goals a season. Hardly phonominal.
06 Sep 2015 12:17:40
Maze ,
Bobby Charlton went through a plane crash , saw his friends die and then played in a patched together team while Sir Matt tried to build again and you're talking about Rooney playing through transition years etc
Cop on to yourself !
06 Sep 2015 12:23:09
Made, I'm in agreement about Rooney. I think he's been a fantastic player for us and he will be our highest goal scorer of all time, so he deserves respect. I've been critical of him of late as I'm frustrated at his position, but that's mostly due to our mad philosopher playing him out of position. Played behind a striker, he'll be excellent.
On the Charlton comment, all I can say is that if Charlton was playing now, he would have been one of the top 3 players in the world, he was simply sensational. But he also played a different position to Rooney so the comparison is not relevant.
06 Sep 2015 12:31:14
So Shappy me saying Rooney will become the clubs leading scorer ever is not a fact?
06 Sep 2015 12:46:04
Schmid just to clarify the comparison with Charlton was just in the fact Rooney will eventually score more than him. The comparison was to highlight that in my opinion Rooney has and always has came up against tougher defenders and has scored goals in a climate where 90 percent of the teams he has played against sit deep with 10 men behind the ball and load the box against United.
I am a believer that the modern game and the science of the sport has grown that much a lot of the greats of the past would not be the world beaters they once were. I think the great players of the modern era are truly great because the average player has evolved so much so that they are ten times the average player of decades ago.
06 Sep 2015 12:58:20
Maze it is not a fact to two counts.
First it isn't a given he will break our club record, Chalton scored 199 goals, Rooney is on 170 so he needs 29 to match it, 30 to break it. Based on his previous seasons he will need two more seasons to break to record. So it is far from a fact that he will beat it.
It is also not a fact that his record is better than anyone else, that depends on how you look and judge a goalscoring record. Total goals scored is just one way to look at it. How about average goals scored(goals scored divided by games played)?
Rooney has just played in a top United side for longer than most. Law was a better striker as was RvN and RvP but they didn't play as many games as Rooney. There are also other strikers who were probably better goalscorers than Rooney. So you can't just say Rooney will possibly be the highest scorer therefore he was the best fact.
06 Sep 2015 13:45:05
Rooney cannot be mentioned in the same breath as Sir Bobby Charlton. People seem to have little appreciation of what football was like back in the 50's , 60's and 70's , pitches of mud , tackles that would have long bans now but also the balls. Charlton was hitting rockets with a ball that was unbelievably heavy , that got heavier when wet, not the perfectly round beach ball they play with now. Rooney has scored goals through our most successful period surrounded by players like Ronaldo, on perfect pitches. The defences now are better organised but can't be as physical as back in Charltons day. The comparison is not favourable and I can't see Rooney staying as an ambassador of the club after his playing days.
Lastly I was in a non tourist part of Egypt a few years ago and the locals couldn't speak English so I tried out the age old rumour of whether they knew him and just said Bobby Charlton, their heads came up and said only Manchester United and that was their only English vocabulary. The man is a great and it is more than a count on the number of goals makes him that.
{Ed007's Note - Ah but what was the offside rule back then, how many goals would Charlton have got if today's rules about offside were applied? Bobby Charlton might not have played so many minutes if substitutions were allowed pre 1965, do you see how preposterous it all sounds? It's pointless comparing players from different generations.
BTW if you go to any country in the world, make a smoking motion with your hand and say 'hashish' you're 100% guaranteed they'll know what you're talking about, or so I'm led to believe.}
06 Sep 2015 13:45:16
Shappy when Rooney breaks the record he will be the greatest ever goalscorer in our history, fact. Swing it any way you want with your year by year stats and average goals but when he surpasses 199 and make no mistake he will, Rooney will be the most accomplished goalscorer for United in their entire existence.
06 Sep 2015 14:12:03
shappy
rooney has scored 233 goals for united .
charlton 249.
over the last 11 seasons at united rooney has an average of 21 goals a season .
what are you going on about
06 Sep 2015 14:25:08
Jred, just reaslised I got my stats from an out dated site. He needs 16 to match the record 17 to beat it. On current form it is not definitive he will this season.
He most likely will beat it before he leaves but my point that you can't say it is a fact that Rooney is our greatest ever goal scorer still stands.
06 Sep 2015 14:50:13
I think shappy is talking league goals alone.
Both have done amazing things in the red of United, can't we just appreciate them both equally instead of constantly comparing them. Everyone has their own preferences.
06 Sep 2015 14:50:53
shaps
i would agree with that .
but also you can't say he has only scored 170 goal and averages 15 goals a season.
i think a 21 goal a season average over 11 year , for a player that doesn't really play as a 9 is pretty good .
i wouldn't call it poor
06 Sep 2015 15:11:13
chris
i would agree with that .
im not sure how you can compare them
06 Sep 2015 16:20:22
Well obviously if I had the wrong figure to start with then none of the math will add up.
On refection that his average does work out to be 21 total goals a season then that is a better record than I thought.
But I stand by my opinion that in my view he won't go down as one of our greatest players for the many different reasons that have heen disccussed to death over the last couple of days. He will he remembered as a legend through the media, but my personal opinion is that he falls short of that honor.
06 Sep 2015 17:15:20
shaps
if he breaks the record he will go down as a man united legend . an all time top goal scorer for any club will be remembered as a legend never mind one as big as united .
i also think the record will stand for a long time .
even if your opinion he didn't reach his potential.
if he doesn't he will just be another very good player in a long list.
06 Sep 2015 17:34:42
Maze, the legends of previous years did not face the defenders we have today, I agree. However, the legends from previous didn't have all the scientific conditioning, dietary developments that have happened over the past 50 years. But what they did have is a skill set that was unbelievable. If they had the benefit of today's conditioning and diet, they will be world class in every way.
06 Sep 2015 18:12:09
I think in 20 years time we'll look back at Rooney's record in sheer amazement, we'll forget his horrendous first-touch and runs of poor form because his record will speak for itself.
The comparisons between him and Charlton are pointless, time will show that both are legends of their respective era, it takes talent, dedication and hard work to break records at arguably the biggest club and most competitive league in the world.
06 Sep 2015 20:46:41
Agree with Ed007, comparing players from different times in history is wholly meaningless.
07 Sep 2015 00:18:03
Ed007 couldn't agree more, I hate comparing football Is a total different game now compared for the better i'd say
{Ed007's Note - Look up videos of Jimmy Johnstone on Youtube, he was doing things Messi can only dream about - and he done it all being a ginger!}