18 May 2015 20:39:58
I think we should stay away from paying £20m-£30m for potential quality, Invest that money in our own youth ( to build loyalty), or double it and pay for ready made superstars (like the top teams tend to do).
We are falling into a trap of spending big money to then hope the players fulfil their potential, by which point their agents are wanting a big pay day (for themselves and their player), or the player themselves want a fresh challenge.
Obviously we have the current DDG problem, but this will happen consistently. We will spend a couple of years under-strength whilst the potential super star learns the fine arts that will take them to the next level, by which point the clubs that have a different methodology to ours will come in and pay the cash - either sounding them out early so contracts aren't signed or simply paying big money for the finished article, meanwhile we start again.
If Nani had turned into the next Ronaldo I have no doubt he would be playing for Barcelona or Madrid now, if Januzaj fulfils his potential he will be playing for a European team because he is fed up of Manchester or whatever.
A culmination of boredom, agents, selfishness and lack of loyalty means that this policy of spending mega money on potential stars will hurt us a lot more than it benefits us.
Players like Wilson should be loyal, but I am confident that if Shaw meets expectations he will be gone by the age of 25. The game has moved on now, we are turning into a feeder club.
18 May 2015 21:07:40
Calm down, there's no reason to find a negative about everything! Just because De Gea is probably leaving doesn't mean every single potentially world class player will do the same.
18 May 2015 21:37:00
That's nonsense again beast. How are we a feeder club? Because dea gea is most likely going to Madrid where all his family lives?
If we would constantly go out and buy ready made superstars we would have not produced the likes of the class of 92, and players like welbeck, Wilson, Blackett etc would not have had a chance to play.
Take Chelsea as an example they keep winning the youth cup yet haven't brought a player through their ranks since john terry.
And other than Ronaldo how many players have we sold that were just becoming a superstar?
You mention we should splash the cash for already made superstars yet how many times has di Maria's price tag been questioned? Also questioned by yourself?
You mention Shaw, but didn't he allegedly turn down Chelsea for ourselves. so what makes you think he will be gone when he's 25? Not many English players go play abroad anyway so I can't accept that.
18 May 2015 21:41:40
It might be different if we had the weather that they have in Spain
18 May 2015 21:41:52
Bit harsh Beast. I get that some foreign players might not stay but domestic ones will. To call us a feeder club is ludicrous, as and when we get back to winning ways things will change. I see Shaw being here for many many years and if Januzaj progresses and cements a place, I see him being here for years too.
18 May 2015 21:55:27
So we shouldn't spend money on potential because it's a no win situation? Either the players fails or he becomes so good he wants to go to Madrid? I honestly don't know what to say to this.
18 May 2015 22:10:46
Didn't you just make this exact same point a few postings ago?
Obviously if we can develop talent more cheaply through great scouting and youth development we should, but there's no guarantee that even the young ones will stay any more. Pogba?
But to conclude we shouldn't even attempt to bring in the best young talent is going to far. It may be a completely acceptable business plan to bring in a young player, get the best out of them, and then maybe sell them on, recouping at least a good portion of the transfer fee, if not making a profit. They will probably still end up being less expensive than an older established star who may command higher wages, and have little to no resale value.
It may be disappointing that the 15 year veteran is a thing of the past. If that's so then we need to adapt to that reality. It's not something we did well in the latter SAF days. We held on to too many players for too long, as great as they were, leaving us with an aging squad, a serious midfield talent deficiency, and younger players who were never able to bed into the team for lack of playing time. Even more worrying is overpaying players who do not play to expectations, rewarding the likes of Nani with new contracts.
This is not to say the club should not do whatever it can to negotiate and renegotiate contracts in a timely manner lessening the potential of losing ones talent at a less than market price.
In some respects I wish we could be a better feeder club than we are. The EPL is littered with the modest talent to have emerged from our youth ranks. How many top talents have we produced? Do you see any in our team? Anywhere else?
There are many parts of the club in need of renewal and reinvigoration. On thing we do not need to do is cut ourselves off from top young talent because they might move on in the future. If they do, you just replace them.
In the end the issue is coming up with a winning strategy. As long as the club can afford it why would you worry? If we're winning the EPL and challenging in Europe, top players will want to play for us, despite having to live in Manchester rather than London, Barcelona, Madrid or Paris. To think otherwise is defeatism.
18 May 2015 22:14:36
Unbelievable!
18 May 2015 22:15:40
Haha incredible. Januzaj is a player of our youth academy? We didn't go out and spend millions on him. If he fulfils his potential a moves to another side then the point you're trying to make hasn't got a leg to stand on mate.
18 May 2015 22:16:26
I think we should only bother with young players who can see the Stretford end from their bedroom window, anyone else is just going to leave us for Madrid.
18 May 2015 22:22:35
Just my view.
You use Chelsea as an example as to what's wrong, they just won the league with ease!
We should bring through our own youth or buy ready made superstars, occasionally we get it wrong (ADM) but on the whole it is much safer than splashing big money on potential.
Spend £5m-£10m sure, but £20-£30m is a massive gamble and then the very realistic chance they will want to move just as they reach peak (for whatever reason, but a lot will be agents).
How many young prospects do we see Bayern, Madrid, Barcelona, Chelsea or City buy - who do we want to compete with?
18 May 2015 22:23:51
I'd say buying Ronaldo for 12 million then selling for circa 85 million is quite a good bit of business. Look at what has happened with Cleverly. We have brought him through and he will leave for nothing. It doesn't make a great deal of difference. The one thing that needs to be tied up in knots a bit are players contracts purely from a value/business point of view regardless of wether they are homegrown or not. Football is now like any other business at the present time. There is no loyalty now from consumers/customers. The exact same thing can be said about most players. Players are now a conscious product and they know it. It's a job and you might just be fortunate enough to be playing for a club you love or if not at least they are paying you well.
18 May 2015 22:25:57
There's only two clubs that DDG would leave us for. Real Madrid or Barcelona. He's Spanish and the biggest club in Spain, arguably the world wants him as their number one, which will lead to him being Spain's number one. It's hardly surprising he's considering it.
Many of us suspected this would happen eventually, but me myself thought he'd replace Valdes at Barcelona.
18 May 2015 22:30:10
De Gea has been very good this season, but if we build correctly this summer and complete our transition like intended, then as long as we get a half decent keeper, we will be fine. I would like to see us go for Lloris. He's similar to DDG, even Cech could play on into his late 30's. He reminds me of VdS.
18 May 2015 22:30:48
You know what I can see that logic behind his post. I think the scouts should be instructed to find players that have the potential to become very good but not so good that we might lose them to Madrid.
18 May 2015 22:46:50
Syd am not having that we are the biggest club in the world the only thing different is the weather that's all
18 May 2015 23:03:35
So, Beast, are you saying that had Hazard come to us rather than Chelsea, it would have been a mistake, just because one day he might have wanted to move on? Even if De Gea leaves, do you think it was a mistake to sign him in the first place?
Good business is good business, and bad is bad. You simply can't specify in advance a specific amount of money. It's the quality you acquire within the context of team development and requirements that's important.
18 May 2015 23:22:29
Dazw, the climate is a massive factor to most players. Especially their wives :)
19 May 2015 00:22:44
Beast,
I usually like you and I understand where you come from a lot of the time but this post is an absolute joke, I have no words to even argue with it. Read it back yourself, it looks like somebody trying to troll the page. Feeder club lol.
19 May 2015 09:28:59
I am saying we are becoming a feeder club without realising it and we need to be careful. The problem with these posts is that even if I am right it will take a while to be proven correct and when that happens its a negative so it will be discarded.
I have no problem spending up to £10m on speculative signings, that ultimately is what the scouts should be looking at anyone can see Hazard, Kane, etc and think they are class. The Rafael's etc are the ones we should be going for. The trouble is if we spend £20m-£30m on a 20 year old, there is every chance they are not yet ready for first team football, so we spend time getting them there only for their loyalty not to be with us, so they don't sign new contracts and they get picked up cheaply in their prime by competitors. Agents have so much power now it isn't the same as 1992.
I say sign 26-29 year olds, who are already in their prime. There is so much money in the game now that sell on value isn't as important for the elite clubs - to be the best you need to have the best.
There are examples both ways of course. I have no doubt that if we had signed Hazard when we bid for him that he would be being signed by PSG, Munich or Madrid this summer, homesick etc.
If Januzaj played for Anderlecht last season we would have brought him for £25m - waste. In 4 years time if Depay fulfils his potential do you think he will be playing for us, or winding his contract down for a dream move to Barcelona etc?
19 May 2015 09:34:53
I just read Sterling not signing new deal. Ibe will be next in a couple of years (probably Coutinho as well), they lost Suarez, Torres, Mascherano, Alonso just as they were reaching their peak. The same thing has been happening to other clubs for ages, but we are slipping into that Liverpool bracket, that is what concerns me when we invest so much and the player not being the finished article.
We need to spend big money on potential when we are back at number 1, not when we are mucking it out with the also rans.
19 May 2015 10:06:45
So what you are saying without giving any credit for it is that we have got a great prospect in Januzaj for free, which is what the scouts should be doing?
If Hazard was 'homesick' surely it is unlikely he would go to Spain, more likely Belgium?
19 May 2015 10:19:52
A feeder club??? Beast what are you smoking? That post at the top was some of the worse nonsense I have ever read on this page.
19 May 2015 10:24:54
I used etc GDS2, Homesick, dream club, new challenge, more money, agent pressure, family pressure, hates the North, hates a team mate, hates the manager, win trophies etc etc etc. If I have to explain everything in details GDS2 I would be here all day. Surely you would know that I know Hazard is Belgian and there are no big clubs in Belgium, pointless nit picking.
It seems to make any controversial point the person making it has to write "War & Peace" to simply justify having the thought otherwise it gets torn to bits by pedants.
19 May 2015 11:45:34
It seems like you have more 'controversial points' to make than most mate, not saying that is necessarily a bad thing, but it does make you seem like you are just deliberately being controversial to provoke a reaction so that you can then get all defensive.
19 May 2015 12:37:54
I very rarely get defensive GDS2. I try to have something interesting to say rather than just copy and pasting from the papers. I like to think outside the box, this page is all about reactions, thinking about angles you may not have considered before. I know that's what I enjoy about it, I often read with one mind-set and leave with it slightly altered and hopefully improved/better educated.
I know this latest view isn't exactly popular, but maybe a few people will think I have a point - why are we taking massive gambles for 2-3 years down the road when we need World Class talent now and can afford it?
Anything can happen with young players as we have seen, the growing power of agents is making youth investment especially at the £30m mark a ludicrous gamble in my eyes.
19 May 2015 13:07:58
not many players stop at a club for a long period of time , these days .
you need a mixture of youth and experience ,home grown and foreign , potential , established .
you can't just sign a "certain type" of player.
some transfers work some dont