27 Mar 2015 09:00:25
With the internationals looming the media debate always swings back around to homegrown talent, the grass roots of our game and how we can produce better HG players. Now myself I am not a massive international football enthusiast, sure I enjoy the World Cup and the Euros but other than that I am by no means an avid fan.
Having said that, yes I would like the home nations to fare better in big tournaments especially my beloved Scotland so where do we all stand on getting the best out of HG players? There's now more talk of reducing foreign imports and implementing more laws in regards to having a certain amount of HG players in a squad. Will that help any?
I for one am a complete believer in if your talented enough, dedicated enough and determined enough you'll make it. Whether your name is Jack or Jose, Robinson or Rodriguez, is irrelevant. I understand where folk come from in regards to saying the increase of foreign imports reduces the spaces we have for kids coming through but if the kids are good enough surely they will force their way into the team.
I personally think that the problem is not our set-up, our coaching or even our clubs but the young lads themselves. I feel young Brits lack the willingness to succeed, determination, humility and desire of our foreign compatriots. I feel it's the mentality of our youth that let themselves down rather than their ability. Skills can be coached but strength in character can only be nurtured.
27 Mar 2015 09:52:37
It all comes down to education in my opinion. And the only way to fix that is to bring up the level of coaching. Some of the best managers in our league weren't top level footballers and they have an education that is not just football based. LvG was a teacher, and both Mourinho and Wenger are intelligent men who could be successful in a career outside of football if they so wished.
In England we have this "Roy of the Rovers" mentality where if you run faster, tackle harder and play with heart then you'll overcome technically superiority. And on occasions it does work, Stoke are a prime example of a team who are tough to play against for the top teams. But Stoke never come close to winning the league which shows that in fact it is technical skill and not heart that wins more often than not.
In England we 2, 769 licensed coaches, if you look at the ratio between licensed coaches to players in England that is 1 coach to every 812 players.
In Germany they have 34, 970 with a ratio of 1:150
In Italy they have 29, 420 with a ratio of 1:48
In France they have 17, 588 with a ratio of 1:96
and in Spain they have 23, 995 with a ratio of 1:17
So for Spain a country lauded for the technical skill of their players they have one licensed coach for every 17 players, where as we have one for every 812 and then we wonder why our players lack technical quality.
A pupil will only ever be as good as the education he is given, if our players aren't good enough it is because we aren't coaching them well enough.
We need to address the real issue and focus on the education of our coaches. People wonder why we have so many foreign players but no one wonders why we have so many foreign coaches and managers.
Until this is addressed we will continue to "under perform" at international level.
27 Mar 2015 10:59:59
I'm not expert in this, but I have seen Shappy's stats before on the coaching and its almost laughable how far behind we are in that area, so I agree a lot has to do with coaching.
I also think a higher proportion of our kids are spoilt, having access to phones, computers etc from a young age, which means they are out of their parents hair but doing very little sports wise. My old man was a tyrant, if he saw me watching TV on a half decent day it would be a clip round the ear and get out with a football and play with your mates. Nowadays it's not as safe (media hype), kids all have other interests and parents are going for the easy option too much because of laziness, funds or simply being too busy leading their own lives. (Obviously there are a great many exceptions, but taking the average).
Typically young kids with talent are molly-coddled too much as well, they take longer to become men and take responsibilities for their actions - the whole X-Factor generation is leading to a lot of our potential stars giving up the second they meet adversity because it is made too easy for them during their formative years. How few of our current crop of Internationals are leaders? A stubbed toe and they are out for a month, how can we expect our boys to be great men if they never turn into men.
The weather in the UK doesn't help, as I travel a lot to mostly warm climates the amount of kids I see playing football compared to when back in the UK is ridiculous. Maybe they are not getting coached, but anybody showing talent will be picked up in no time at all, the pool is larger overseas despite populations. I dread to think of all the talent back home going to waste as they score make believe goals on the X box instead of their local park.
Another issue is our weakness mentally, we seem to have developed into a society where its ok to try and not win, "its the taking part that counts" rubbish. We aren't hungry like we used to be, other nations through poverty or simply mind-set are far less likely to accept failure, we on a whole are weak now, it started during the fall of empire and the results are what we see today, its almost acceptable to be claiming benefits from the state, there is no shame in failure now.
It's that same weakness that has me frustrated the "Arsenal Sydrome" I call it, which we seem to be sleep walking into ourselves as Utd fans, since when is top 4 only, a success? That feeds down to our kids.
Obviously there are major exceptions, great parents, hungry kids, active kids, people genuinely having no option but benefits, but taking things as a whole I think these core reasons together is why we are so far behind, poor role models, fear to install discipline and bad organisation.
27 Mar 2015 11:38:09
Beast/Shappy very good points lads. I think it's essentially a combination of all those things but I would still stand by the notion that if your good enough and determined enough you will make it.
Shappy I would like to ask you about the South Americans who come from very little and always seem to be superstars. I don't expect you to pluck stats out of think air but it would be intresting to know what the coaching set up is over there. I can't imagine The numbers adding up to anywhere near the European leagues or the coaching being to the same standard. So is it individual drive and self belief that is key?
Beast I think you make a very good point in terms of the media in the UK. It's not safe out to kick the ball about with your mates is a perfect example of your point. Also this culture of 'it's the taking part that counts' is a flaw. I know parents who won't let their kids play competitively at ten years old because they don't want them to lose and get upset. At ten years old the Dutch and Spanish are kids are being picked up by super clubs.
27 Mar 2015 12:05:25
Good post shappy No idea whether your stats are correct but listened to a radio debate sometime ago when it was highlighted just how few coaches at all levels we had compared with the countries you mentioned. We focus on pace, power, passion, physique instead of skill, technique and all round awareness. Is it a coincidence that all our clubs have struggled in the champions league in the last few years eg arsenal ran around like headless chickens against an monaco who just picked them off
27 Mar 2015 12:52:54
Its partly kids attitude, using zaha as an example, partly clubs overcharging as its easier and cheaper to buy a foreign player in the mid 20s or above compared to an u21 championship player, and the lack of coaches. Biggest tv deal in history and how much is going to grass roots?
27 Mar 2015 13:42:26
Juan, when it comes to South American players it is as much a cultural as it is a numbers game. There is a massive working class population in South America and their only way out of the poverty is football, they live and breath it. Many of the kids spend 6-7 hours every day playing football from a young age. This dedication to football almost above everything else isn't something we can replicate in Europe. But as much of this it is also a numbers game, and the number of young lads playing football is more than our entire population. So again we can't compete.
I agree to a point that in England that they get too much too soon, but you don't get it until you are a professional in England. But this issue only happens because it is rare to get a youngster come through and make it, so when they do it goes over the top. If we had more top coaches training these lads to a higher level more would make it and then they would all get less and they would be competing with more people for those few spaces at the top.
The standard of living in England is pretty much the same as it is in countries such as Spain, Germany, France, Italy and the Netherlands yet they don't have the same issue with young players getting too big for their boots. That is down to the education these lads have had coming through.
The answer is simple, more coaches trained to a higher standard will result in us having better players.
27 Mar 2015 17:50:06
And places for them to actually coach as well shappy :)
27 Mar 2015 19:17:58
I recommend reading Soccernomics by Simon Kuper and Stefan Szymanski. It goes into a lot of the statistics, including education levels for both players and coaches. In particular it suggests there's been a reverse class bigotry in the sport keeping out well educated players and coaches.
On the other hand, given the statistics, including the reduced pool of players due to reverse classism etc, it suggests that England has been no more or less successful than would be predicted. We just think we ought to be better than we are!!