26 Mar 2015 07:04:12
Reading through posts lately let's just try to put the season into perspective so far. We sit in fourth place and look like a shoe-in for the CL spot if Arsenal beat Liverpool next week. We've had many bumps and tumbles along the way but this is where we are at in the end. Now my question (which will label me as a 'negative poster' . yawn!) is it enough?
As well documented we spent heavily in the summer - more than anyone in Europe - and we didn't lose any key players. We have added a CL winner, WC finalists, among others at the top of their trade and have kept our most experienced players who have been winners and champions throughout their entire career. A new high profile manager has come in, he is collecting one hell of a pay check (the fifth largest in Europe apparently) with a mentality of a winner.
Now we sit in fourth. I see posts of glee because we are in fourth. When did we settle for such mediocrity? When did Man Utd the mighty stallion in the stable become the shy pony in the corner? We have one of the best squads in the league and added drastically. Our facilities are top notch also and we haven't had the burden of midweek jetting around Europe to play games.
Don't give me this tripe of 'the team was damaged', 'confidence shot' and 'broken spirited' after 9 months under Moyes. We have a team of proven winners and added proven winners/staff so that's just BS. We have had injuries yes but who hasn't? The whole league has been ravished by them especially Arsenal and Liverpool who have also had European fixtures.
Lastly the manager. Yes he has come into a new club, country, environment etc but is that just another excuse for below-par displays this season? How did Mourinho fair in his first year at Chelsea and Inter? How about Ancelotti at Madrid? Or Pep at Bayern? What about Pellegrini at City? I could go on. At the end of the day we are one of the biggest clubs in the sport and have talent and resources in abundance. Was a greater attempt at the title being unreasonable? I don't think so.
Yes I am content we are in the top four but I don't think anything remarkable has came of this season and I most definitely will not be settling for a top four berth only in the years ahead.
26 Mar 2015 09:14:12
JMB
End of the day the early season blame has to lay at LVG's feet, he should of figured out his "philosophy" was not working a lot earlier than 8 month's, basically his stubborness has cost us points this season.
BUT
He now seems to have listened to his critics(I know people don't agree with that) and he seems to be finally on the right track, hopefully we can keep on performing till end of season. I hope and pray LVG keeps doing what he's doing now and doesn't play his favourites for the sake of it.
One person who has saved LVG from the sack IMO is DeGea without a doubt.
26 Mar 2015 09:14:48
JMB,
The target for this year was top 4, if you thought we could finish above City and Chelsea before the season started then you were deluded. I always felt we were at about a level with Arsenal and will finish just above them or just below them. Just because we spent a lot in the summer does not guarantee us winning the league, City and Chelsea have been spending these vast sums for years while we stood still and watched them catch us up and overtake us.
Why can we not give you the 'tripe' about confidence being shot, it quite clearly was, look at last season, we got beaten by our 2 biggest rivals at home 3-0. Basically you are asking a question is it enough but then saying that nobody replying can use any of the reasons as to why 4th is enough.
I don't think the injuries helped us at the beginning of the season to be honest, the same with Arsenal, to say the league has been ravished with them is fine but Chelsea and City have had nowhere near the injury issues we have had and as far as I can see Chelsea are the only team we are pretty much guaranteed not to finish above.
Did we really keep our most experienced players? Our captain left in the summer, Ferdinand and Evra both left in the summer, Giggs retired.
You have hit the nail on the head with your last paragraph though, for me yes 4th this season was the target and if we reach it then we have done well, it is not remarkable but it is what we needed, and of course settling for top 4 is not the plan in the years ahead, we are building back up to be challenging on all fronts as the manager has clearly stated on a number of occasions.
26 Mar 2015 10:53:49
Oh yes I remember my history lessons now, and I remember them saying that in fact Rome was actually built in a day. I think it was a Tuesday if I remember correctly. Everyone went to sleep on the Monday night without a Roman empire and by Tuesday night that empire had risen up and had become the largest empire on earth in a mere 24 hours.
Sir Alex produced a absolute miracle in his final season in charge by winning the league with the poorest team to have ever lifted the title. We had a talented keeper who couldn't deal with balls in the air of long shots, a hit and miss RB, the rest of the back four were a few years past their best. In midfield we had Carrick who has been under rated but has never been world class and along side him we had either a 38yo Scholes, Cleverley or Anderson. On the wings we had options of Valencia, Nani or Young who were so poor more often than not Welbeck played ahead of them. Only Rooney and RvP were anywhere near being world class. We needed a whole new back four, as well as a whole new midfield and better options out wide. Since then RvP has declined so we even need a new striker.
Since Sir Alex retired we have started to rebuild, but in that time the players have had their confidence completely shot to pieces. And anyone who said their confidence was fine has clearly forgetting the way we rolled over at home to Liverpool last season.
LvG has come in and has had to create a new identity for the team, he has introduced his ideas and it has taken time for the players to adapt to them. He has also had to rebuild their confidence. He has had to bring new players into the squad and they have needed to settle and find their place within the squad and settle in to a new country. He has also had to deal with one of the worst injury spells I can remember and this happened at the worst possible time while he was trying to settle himself and new players into a new enviroment. We had no continuity when we needed it most due to injuries.
Anyone who expected instant success is either deluded or is very naive. Rebuilding a club takes time, the amount of time it takes depends on the amount of rebuilding that needs doing.
Now everyone believes we need at least 1 CB maybe two, a RB, at least one more CM, another Winger and probably another ST. That's at least 5 new players maybe 7 if we get 2 if we get an extra midfielder and centre back. Now isn't that an admission that we need half a team? So if we need half a team than how do people expect any manager to challenge for titles with half a team?
Has LvG done an amazing job? no, could he have done a better job? in hindsight its easy to say yes, but he didn't have the luxury of hindsight. Has he done a good job? Imo yes he has. Personally I don't think any other manager could have done significantly better.
26 Mar 2015 11:10:01
How can you compare the team LVG walked into with the teams Pep Ancelotti and Mourinho did? Ridiculous post JMB probably your worst yet
26 Mar 2015 11:11:09
Good post. The problem is that most of our supporters are happy with CL football precisely because of the reasons (lame excuses) you mention JMB.
Since when was top 4 our aim? Who said that GDS2?
I distinctly remember the manager saying that he is a winner and Man Utd should be winning the league, that is his target this season!
The board have set a financial target of 3rd, but since when have us fans been bothered about what the board wants? Straw clutching!
LVG has failed miserably this season for a vast array of reasons, many of which he has brought onto himself needlessly, of course there were issues out of his control, but he is paid to manage those. Recently he has solved some of the problems he created himself, the only new players (signed or youth) who have been part of that transition are Herrera & Blind, not even a 3rd of the money he spent in the summer or any of our young talent!
If the past 2 games are anything to go by then he is finally getting the house in order and I am a little more positive about our future prospects, but to call this season anything other than a wasted opportunity is a sign of how pathetic our aspirations have become.
By the way I have watched 10 atrocious performances on the spin this season, 2 good ones shouldn't eradicate all the needless mistakes our manager has made. We are too quick to forget and Villa could be another one of those slow, indecisive performances, very very easily.
The praise for him playing youth seems to have dried up from people doesn't it as well? It's now been replaced with the equally blinded, "we have to admire him for picking players on form and dropping the superstars", that is rubbish as well. Because we have no Europe we are constantly focussing too much on the very recent past and not looking at thing objectively in some cases.
Where was the youth his backers were praising him for, let's see how long it takes for RVP to get a game again, or ADM for that matter?
Well done for the past 2 games, but the season has been wasted, our opponents were for the taking!
26 Mar 2015 11:17:15
Top reply, Snappy!
26 Mar 2015 11:26:33
So the manager is deluded Shappy?
26 Mar 2015 11:27:26
Back in January JMB was blaming the players but then he became Beast's apprentice and the rest, as they say, is history
26 Mar 2015 11:34:57
Beast,
Post like that just make you sound so much like you hate LVG its unbelievable. Actually it isn't unbelievable because you have been at it all year. It has been quite clear all years that the target this year was top 4, if we could get higher then great.
It makes me laugh out loud how anybody with any reasons that disagree with yours are just 'lame excuses', you couldn't make it up.
26 Mar 2015 11:51:22
Jmb - behave, we were never going to be able to compete with chelski or city this season.
26 Mar 2015 12:02:09
Beast LvG isn't deluded, I said anyone who believed that we could win the league was. LvG saying it doesn't mean he believes it. I think you are very naive if you believe everything any manager says to the press. Just because he said it doesn't mean he believes it. I tell my nephews and nieces that Santa Claus exists, but I don't believe that for a second.
26 Mar 2015 12:12:55
GDS2 - Did the manager not say he expects to win the league this season then?
I am the one taking him at face value and constantly feel let down. I dislike his lies and contradictions and his constant meddling.
Wait there - maybe when he said he expects to win the league it was a language barrier issue, I haven't heard that one for a while!
JMB is just calling it as he sees it. The players have been at fault of course, but they have lacked guidance as we have witnessed by his statue like pose on the side line whenever we are in trouble. He has shown that he can adapt and we played better recently, but let's not confuse that with success, we should have been playing like that after a few games. Then improving to the level of the best teams, especially with the money spent and time on the training ground instead of the airports of Europe.
26 Mar 2015 12:14:00
Love the way the post starts with put the season in perspective then is worded in the worst possible way
I say were 2 points off 2nd place you say we are 4th
If we're actually putting it in perspective just one result difference and we are 2nd, not bad for a team you had written off to finish outside the top 4
26 Mar 2015 12:21:51
clarity,
That is pretty much how it works with JMB, the post started off with a question which is actually a pretty decent question, but then we are told which way we must answer the question and that any arguments to the contrary are invalid as they are 'tripe'.
26 Mar 2015 12:23:34
Shappy - I can't believe you just wrote that. So we pick and choose what we believe on account of what we like the sound of, ignoring what he actually says?
Does he hate Shaw? We don't know we can only speculate as he hasn't said he hates Shaw, but if he comes out and says "I LVG hate Shaw", do we then think he's just saying that to motivate the player or for some other bizarre reason, because we personally don't hate Shaw?
When a manager of Man Utd comes out and says he expects to win the league and 2nd is for losers, I am inclined to believe that is what he was aiming for. Especially with no Europe, Mega funds, A1 resources and players needing to prove themselves and being manager of Man Utd.
Obviously I am the deluded one, not the person who actually said it! Anything to say I am wrong and our manager (who agreed with what I am saying) is some kind of bizarre mind-game contradiction master. Yes I'm the naïve fool clearly!
26 Mar 2015 12:49:08
"I am the one taking him at face value and constantly feel let down. I dislike his lies and contradictions and his constant meddling."
Beast that is a great line from yourself, just out of interest what did you make of all Sir Alex's lies and contradictions?
Or Mourinho's? or any top manager working at a top club?
They all lie to the press, they all contradict themselves, and they all "meddle" Its called top flight management.
Do you want a nice honest manager(Moyes maybe?) or do you want a winner?
You let your dislike for LvG blind you from seeing things in a clear and none bias way, and Juan has the same issue. Jred also doesn't feel that LvG isn't the right man for the job, but he doesn't twist everything round to make it look like everything that goes wrong is LvG's fault.
26 Mar 2015 13:55:53
No we just take everything with a huge pinch of salt. Did we believe everything Sir Alex said?
What do you expect him to say? This squad has played rubbish, half the squad aren't good enough and it's going to take months for us to get anywhere near the level required.
How with that help rebuild the squads confidence?
26 Mar 2015 14:08:14
I think you all need to drink some Herbal tea and calm the fog down.
Just saying :-)
26 Mar 2015 16:04:24
They're seriously twisting my mellow, Herbie.
26 Mar 2015 16:11:53
Noucamp you talk so hip.
lol