11 Mar 2015 19:22:12
A lot of talk about the possession style of football we are playing recently, some agree with it and others not so much. I personally like the fact we are dominating the ball but it is our lack of ideas when we have got it and the slow tempo in which we are distributing it that is problem.
I seen someone post that 'this is the Dutch style' which is partly true but the Dutch of old most definitely had end product to their play. The thing is that it doesn't have to be slow and lack a cutting edge. Look at the way De Boer has Ajax playing at the minute, they are quick on the ball and like to keep possession.
Even when you look at the Tika Taka that Pep plays it isn't too dissimilar to that of the Dutch's total football. Sometimes Peps style can be very slow but the way he sets up it can change in an instant and the team can become electrifying. Adding to that the way he plays isosceles triangles always opens up space and when his teams lose the ball they swarm in twos or threes to regain possession which puts opponents under pressure.
If LVG does leave in the summer I for one don't want someone like a Simeone or Mourinho type of coach. Yes they are good at what they do but they set up specifically to either counter attack or suffocate the opposition which can be equally boring at times. If nothing else the fact our players are getting on the ball and learning how to play possession based football is a plus for me.
11 Mar 2015 19:32:13
JMB - I agree, my thing is the possession is pointless, it's too slow. I would love to watch us against Barcelona or Bayern this season, we would be destroyed possession wise. We have no urgency to our play, a snail could shimmy across and not expend energy. The whole point is to tire teams, pry gaps, try to open space and penetrate at speed.
We are like a boxer with his hands up all fight, sure you aren't getting whacked in the face, but you aren't going to knock out your opponent a you will always lose on points, or get smashed in the stomach! So we are boring to watch like the boxer without a plan.
Our Plan a & B is to launch it to Fellaini now, we literally dominate the ball because we shift it in none threatening positions, run out of space or options and then launch. I hate it.
11 Mar 2015 19:49:48
The lack of penetration or even attempt to penetrate other defences is what gets at me also Beast. We need to find a cutting edge, desire to push forward and a confidence in our ability to find those passes. This is why I can't begin to understand why Mata is being overlooked.
The thing with Felliani is our plan B is slowly becoming plan A which is not good. I like Felliani I feel he brings something different to the squad but by no means is he or should he be our driving force in attack.
Having said that if LVG goes I feel appointing a gaffer who doesn't play a possession based game would be a step backwards as hopefully next season we will have more cutting edge to our play and a year worth of experience at keeping the ball under our belts.
11 Mar 2015 22:00:55
Fellaini has become plan A, look how many games he is starting. He is a last 15 minute player where we need to get the ball forward, not do it from the first minute.
11 Mar 2015 22:49:48
Thing is its an alien concept to British teams, it takes time to change the mentality and get used to Phil O'Sophy.
Problem is its taking a long time and we urgently need to get champions league hence the switch to try and get results.
Long term I would like de Boer. Someone for me would be a disaster.
11 Mar 2015 23:04:18
Fellaini should not see the field before the 80th minute. I think some of our talented players suffer from a lack of power and athleticism in the squad. A powerful center midfielder might allow Mata more room and freedom to roam and find space. As it is, we are a little lightweight and slow, so Mata has less space and gets knocked off the ball too much. If we played faster and more direct, Mata would find more room to get on the ball and create more.
11 Mar 2015 23:54:36
'Someone', Mr E? :)
12 Mar 2015 09:11:42
JMB,
I think you are pretty much spot on with your OP, possession is great but we more often than not have no end product. We are taking too long to get forward as we spend 2 minutes passing it around at the back and by the time we go forward the opposition have everybody set up in position and then we wonder why our strikers have no space.
When was the last time we broke quickly and ended up 4 on 3 going forward with defenders out of position and panicking? I can't remember. And the way we are playing means that when the opposition do get the ball we aren't set at all and if they do break quickly we end up being the ones defending 3 on 4.
You are correct that it is meant to be the 'Dutch style' but we appear to be missing the part of that style that makes it exciting and means you can win games 4-0. If you have 70%+ possession in any game and also have the ability to create quickly you should be winning the majority of games in style, and if we were doing that our players would have more confidence and would come out in the next game and do the same thing. Because this isn't happening I think it is making our players scared to make them passes and create chances and it is stifling the play so much we keep possession and make pointless passes across the back 4 rather than attempting to break the defence down quickly.
12 Mar 2015 10:14:00
Are we actually agreeing here GDS?
Is the apocalypse coming?
12 Mar 2015 11:49:43
Haha I made sure I said 'pretty much' just to make sure you knew I wasn't totally agreeing :)
12 Mar 2015 13:00:16
Victim of autocorrect. Although I think whoever gets the job somebody on here will disagree.
12 Mar 2015 14:34:34
We lack quick, tricky wingers. If we had two very quick, strong and technically great wingers making runs it would create more space and give the midfield more outlet options. We don't have a left or right winger to do it at the moment and the defence isn't strong enough thus the rubbish football we see. Now imagine if we had a stronger defence and the two wingers described above, possession would mean goals and lots of them.
I work in change management, LVG will have been set a goal for this season (let's say 4th as a minimum). He has to change the culture in the players (this is hard). Changing a culture takes time, some people can't handle change but it takes time to weed them out. Others will surprise you ( Young?). I envisage a lot of players being moved on at the end of the season, we need an influx of young talent that LVG can mould. The tricky part is that you need balance, Carrick will stay and it pains me to say Rooney will probably stay too. We lack any real experience in defence so it would make sense we bring in someone very experienced to help guide to young players (it will probably be someone in their 30's so as to not hinder the development of others).
Essentially I can see what LVG is trying to do, reach his target and get the players he'll keep to understand the direction he wants to go tactically. LVG wants to dominate the ball, the defenders we have been linked with all have outstanding passing stats. Hopefully we can acquire a couple of wingers and start smashing teams.
12 Mar 2015 20:32:27
I cannot understand all the posters on here who constantly slag off Rooney. He will end up as Utds and England's top scorer whilst either having a crap midfield behind him, having to play in midfield because it's that crap and always having to chase all over because of the crap around him. Every manager in the prem would sign him in a heartbeat, along with de gea. Ok his touch let's him down at times but if we had a few more with his desire we might be a bit better off. Yet to hear one "expert " on any footy programme who doesn't rate him.Get over him being a scouser and earning too much, he's consistently our best player.
12 Mar 2015 23:18:13
Porsche933 - Rooney has been fantastic for us. The issue is Rooney is a player you make space and comprise to fit in. There is a reason managers want him to drop into midfield and that's because he naturally drifts back in games, this slows the tempo and reduces attacking pass options for the rest of the team. I personally feel due to his age and the fact he played a lot of football for his age now is a great time to cash in. The amount of cash he would free up in wages alone would be huge.
However that's easy for me to say as I don't have a personal relationship with him like the coaching and management staff. Also he's our most marketable player which I would assume would make it hard for the exec team to sign off on moving him on . Personally I move Rooney, RVP and Falcao on.