03 Mar 2015 23:30:54
Reading through some posts and its striking to see that as soon as a realist is not an over the top optimist then he/she is branded a pessimist by certain folk on here. I guarantee that if we don't get into the CL this year these folk will be the same people who post things like 'We finished 5th/6th so it's much better than last season' or 'we got the FA cup it's not too bad of a year'. For me that's unacceptable given the circumstances.
It will be interesting come the end of the season as to who will humbly eat their words and those who will not. As a realist if we get the CL spot I will say 'Thank you very much LVG, I didn't think you could do it but you've proved me wrong'. I do wonder who will change their tune come the end of the season and who will continue to play their cordless violin.
There will most definitely be a few posters I will be keeping an eye on during these coming months.
04 Mar 2015 07:03:55
that is not the case at all. This is really starting to do my head in now, no one is coming hard down on the 'realist' it's opinions mate. I don't think u will find one person over the moon with how we have performed this season. Likewise there has not been many posts praising lvg as some sort of demigod.
Some are willing to give it a season and then make a judgement and some are not.
Yet all these comments like 'the lvg lovers' and such when posting a negative post are just remarks without substance.
The abuse people like gds and redman gets for willing to see how it goes is totally wrong.
I've said it before there now seems a popularity contest on here to gain a following. If people have there opinion they should voice it but not use abuse or false remarks to get it heard.
This is not directed at u by the way buddy.
04 Mar 2015 07:41:19
JMB, not sure aht them uprise of your post is other than to dig a few people in the ribs. The vast majority of people are reasonable balanced, even those with dpstrident views generally accept if they were wrong. there are few absolutes in sport, we all have opinions but ultimately we all want success for our team.
Keeping an eye on some people is a little creepy
04 Mar 2015 08:25:41
Lots of typos, I'd like to apologise for my fot fungers
04 Mar 2015 08:30:37
On the contrary Chris I think there are many posters who are very much buckled up on board the LVG express. What about the constant digs folk like Beast and GCU get on a daily basis for having an opinion? Red man (no offence) was the most negative poster on the site last year.
I fail to understand what you mean in regards to a 'popularity contest' or 'following'? But to say that someone is any less of a supporter because he/she can have an unbiased overview is poor (not that you have but it has been implied by other one here).
AJH - I agree we all want success and we all have different opinions but surely there comes a point that if your wrong then you put your hands up and say you were wrong. All I'm saying is come the end of the season (whatever the outcome) I wonder how many folk will be willing to do that.
04 Mar 2015 08:55:39
I'll knock this on the head, too. I'm neither particularly negative or positive. I got behind Moyes last year, even though he wasn't my choice, because I sensed a man who needed all the help he could get in stepping into SAF's shoes.
LVG wasn't my first choice either, not by a long way, but like last season, I know it's a big job he's got on his hands, so I would never dream of calling for his head before a season has even finished.
The reason I'm questioning some of his decisions, is because some of his decisions have been wrong, IMO. This does not make me negative. This makes me a fan with thoughts and eyes. LVG has no lack of self-belief, and never tires of telling us that he's a brilliant manager. In that case, he needs to be held up to higher scrutiny, as he's put himself up there above the parapet.
I like Beasts arguments, even if I disagree with the vast majority of them. I like GDS's enthusiasm, even if I don't feel the same way sometimes.
What I don't like is having to listen to people tell me and others to support the manager, when the very same people offered none of that support last season. At the end of the day, I just don't like hypocrisy. I'll be hoping this manager gets it right. Because the club is the main thing.
04 Mar 2015 09:19:12
I for one did not expect top 4 last season. I don't expect (hope for yes) top 4 this year though I expect us to challenge, and we are.
I honestly think most of us fans underestimated the rebuild task we need, though more are seeing it now, its massive. I posted, over 2 years ago now, we needed 7 or 8 new first team players and to be fair we have signed that many players BUT mostly not in the right areas. We need consistency in vision and strategy = giving whatever manager time.
04 Mar 2015 09:19:59
JMB,
I understand that mate and totally get that beast gets a lot too which I don't agree with either but if someone has a difference of opinion to say for example beast that does not necessarily make them a lvg lover.
Stevie I'm very much in the same camp as u buddy.
04 Mar 2015 09:24:48
JMB,
So in your opinion there are 2 boats, 'realist' and 'over the top optimist'? So either we have your opinion which makes us a realist, or if we disagree with you we are an over the top optimist. And you wonder why I have stopped posting as much about the team and giving any of my own realistic optimistic views.
04 Mar 2015 10:10:37
Not at all GDS. You are twisting what I have said. I am saying that being a realist at the moment means we are being branded as pessimistic. How many people have posted that they don't think LVG has done a great job but will still give him credit when credit is due? That's a realist.
If you want to see an optimist reprimand a realist at its best GDS look at your comment on the above post. I said 'that if we don't beat Newcastle tonight that our chances of getting CL will be slim if results don't to our way'. You have replied saying 'so if we don't beat Newcastle you are giving up on CL next season, thank god you aren't the manager'.
My point exactly.
04 Mar 2015 10:39:34
My post above was deliberately overly optimistic mate, obviously you were going to argue about it and use it in other arguments. Once again, just because it is YOUR opinion it does not mean you are being a 'realist'. Everybody has different opinions, football is about opinions, some of us are naturally positive and some people are negative, not one of us has a more 'real' opinion than anyone else.
04 Mar 2015 10:41:46
I think some people just think if they are positive about the teams performances, they will come good on the pitch! Sadly that's not the case! The bottom line is we shouldn't be worrying about scrapping fourth place with the players we have and a world class manager. If there was signs that we were improving, that would be a glimmer of hope, but we don't even have that! There are still a lot of big teams to play so we should of made it easier for ourselves by this point! But who knows, we might win most of our remaining games and it will change a lot of opinions!
04 Mar 2015 10:43:45
I think you've just seen the error of your ways in your above comment GDS and now your back tracking to be honest mate.
04 Mar 2015 11:15:44
Out of interest if we win all of our remaining games and finish 2nd will it be praise for LVG or slating of our rivals for underperforming that graces these boards???
04 Mar 2015 11:20:55
JMB,
Give it a break pal.
Anotherwiganred,
Fingers crossed we do win a lot of the remaining games, it is certainly possible, I disagree that we are not seeing any signs of improvement, the last 2 and a half games have been pretty good, much more attacking threat and possession that has actually meant something. The result against Swansea wasn't great obviously, but as some have said on here, they want the performances to get better, and it was a much better performance than a lot of the wins this season.
04 Mar 2015 11:29:49
Jmb
I was negative last year based on my experience of transition when Busby retired. Look back a long way prior to Moyes appointment and I was warning about exactly what happened. I saw what I felt at the time was a massive monumental error by the club in their whole methodology not just the appointee.
StevieK
I am no LvG fan, but I merely wish to give him time until summer because I saw the mess which was compounded by last year and he has got more about him than the initial replacement for SAF even if he is not the long term option, which I don't believe he is. I don't believe I have told anyone to support LvG, only that we need to review in summer and that I believe his plans will be key to the owners judgement on his future whether we make top four or not. Remember I wanted Klopp.
04 Mar 2015 12:07:58
The way I see it, both this season and last season anyone who was critical of how we were performing or how the team was progressing were either accused of moaning, accused of being spoiled plastic fans, or told that it was unreasonable to judge the manager until they have had at least a season and a half in charge. What is particularly interesting is that many of the same people who were at the receiving end of these criticisms are now saying the exact same things: if you don't want to be perceived as a whinging glory hunter, get behind van Gaal until he has enough time to implement his changes.
I don't see myself as a realist, I'm just a supporter who, like every other supporter, wants to see his club doing as well as they possibly can. Last season I didn't think that Moyes was the right man for the job and I said that (repeatedly and increasingly irritating ways). But I was open (and hoping) to the possibility that he would prove me wrong. I argued that he should be given a season to show that he was capable of getting the team to move in the right direction, and like a manager in any other industry, his position would be reviewed at the end of the year on the basis of his performance.
I feel the exact same way about van Gaal. This is a manager who claims that they will get this team competing for and winning the biggest trophies. He argues that he needs substantial resources, and sweeping changes within the club and its philosophy from the ground up. In other words, van Gaal is arguing that he will radically transform the club so that we can compete at the very top level again. The problem I have is that if van Gaal wants me to buy into his vision, he needs to demonstrate that his methods work: that the team is moving in the right direction and the is improving under his leadership. At the moment I just don't see any major improvement, and this is the basis upon which van Gaal should be judged at the end of the season: only if he demonstrates real improvement in league position and performance, should he be assured of his job. I don't see why football managers should be exempt from the general rules and standards of performance monitoring that exist in every other profession (including the players under van Gaal who are dropped if they don't perform).
04 Mar 2015 12:34:41
Danny,
I pretty much agree with everything you said there mate, LVG needs to demonstrate that what he is doing works and at the moment that is on a knife edge. I don't think LVG has been fantastic so far, I also don't think he has been anywhere near as bad as some would have you believe, but the proof will be in the pudding over the next couple of months.
04 Mar 2015 12:52:09
Spot on Danny mate.