02 Mar 2015 13:21:48
MB and Juan and all the other doubters. Yes we have got a tough fixture list coming up, but please, let's take one game at a time and try to get as many points as we can and see where that gets us.
Newcastle away is by no means an impossible game to win, so let's go there, play well and support our team. Then we can think of the next game. Its not much point at looking at the whole fixture list and writing us off. Anything can happen, injuries, loss of form etc.
If we make top4 and have a good run in the cup, then that will be considered a good season. Your reference to the money spent is valid, but please don't forget that for the first 4 months of season, we had over 50 injuries. We have a lot of new players who need to settle down in a new country, a new team, new language, new culture. These things don't happen overnight. Some players settle quickly while others take longer. So the only thing we can do is get behind them and make sure they're giving 100%, if they don't step up to the plate, then they will be gone anyway, but please let's give them and the manager the time they need.
02 Mar 2015 13:39:53
I missed this type of post last year
02 Mar 2015 13:42:46
We all laugh at other teams fans and say they're delusional when they talk up their teams, but that's exactly what they do they talk UP their teams. All i've seen on here and around social media from the majority is any reason to talk ours DOWN. Just goes to show how spoilt we have been because after last season I'm just glad to be in the race. Some of the things i've seen going as low as "LVG sitting down too much" now today referencing our wage bill!! its pathetic. If we won every game left now and finished 2nd people would still bemoan how it was done. The problem is people always think they know best and never take into consideration all of the facts. If we do make CL which I think we will just take a second to explore the idea that maybe the way we have played this season is the reason we have managed to do it. Take the positives as positives don't win then slate how it was done because its not guaranteed doing it any other way would have worked. be supporters not critics
02 Mar 2015 13:45:20
Jred
Perhaps there is a difference in standing of the manager since last season
02 Mar 2015 13:45:40
Very reasonable post and hear hear.
Watching Liverpool City yesterday we have to acknowledge that we are comparatively deficient in pace, creativity, and confidence, and unfortunately our tactics have to be geared to that reality. We have spent a lot of money, but once you take ADM out of the equation and balance out the sales, it was not a ridiculous amount. Blind, Shaw, Rojo and maybe even Herrera were all reasonable purchases with potential long term futures at the club.
We will see how we do in the upcoming fixtures. It is easy to fear the worst, but I'm hoping the team will surprise us. If we over commit to attack against Liverpool and the like, we will lose. We will have to play tight defence, with a solid commitment to midfield control, and maybe with Rooney and Falcao up top we can engineer a few goals and wins where we don't expect them.
With respect to the manager, I think both he and his predecessor started with a squad and structure that is short on a number of vital characteristics required for the modern game. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear. It's going to take time to rebuild.
02 Mar 2015 13:51:01
Spot on shawthing this is the mentality we should all be adopting as supporters of the club
02 Mar 2015 13:59:58
Redman
So back the manager if redman rates him .
02 Mar 2015 14:12:49
I think Liverpool and Arsenal are being talked up a little bit too much. If memory serves, we have dispatched both sides this season; and I see no reason why we can't repeat that when we play them again.
02 Mar 2015 14:17:12
Nomid,
Spot on mate, the posts on here saying how bad we are and how we will never make top 4 are a little bit silly. After all, we are in the top 4 at the moment and did fine against the top teams earlier in the season. I can't wait for the big games, they are what the season is all about, what make buying my season ticket worthwhile, as a fan I will never ever go in to them games thinking we will lose, especially with the players we have in our team. In this really tough run of fixtures we have, a few of them are at home, our home form has been pretty impressive and we have to be hoping to win them games. Instead of assuming we are going to lose these games let's back the team to win them and stop bloody moaning.
02 Mar 2015 14:38:04
Is there any post on the site saying we def won't get top 4?
02 Mar 2015 14:53:12
Jred
You need to get away from poor hard done to Moyes. There is a difference in standing and gravitas between last years manager who hadn't earned respect at the very top level and LvG who has. I think a lot will depend on the strategic plan LvG has almost certainly put forward to the board based on his top level experience, not one battling against the odds of the big boys. If the board like it it may not matter about top four but only the board will know. I support the club not the manager but recognise the difference between individual managers and form an opinion from there
02 Mar 2015 15:23:08
Redman
Its your attitude of slagging the last manager off from day 1 and then trying to preach "back the manager" just because you rate this one .
Ive said it many times all managers need time, i'm far from convinced moyes or lvg are the right man or best choice for the job but time will tell
02 Mar 2015 15:34:48
Its not about whos right or wrong none of us going go get a medal from the queen for getting our opinions right.
We need togherness at the moment and back our players otherwie we are only putting more pressure on our players/manager which is only going to have an negative impact.
What happened to the confidence we as fans had in our team?, Imo we will do well for the last part of the season becuase we have to to reach our objectives for the season, which is to get back into champions league.
02 Mar 2015 15:39:37
Jred
On nearly every positive post with LvG mentioned you pop up and say why didn't we do that last year for the last manager. The reason is pretty clear why and also why I think this one is different, LvG is not who I want but better than the last choice. Time doesn't necessarily bring success but expertise and relevant experience are more likely to.
02 Mar 2015 15:48:25
Redman
Ive discussed lvg to death, i gave my views at the start of the season on him and nothing has changed.
But regardless of who the manager is i think the "back the manager" call from someone like yourself is a bit rich pal.
02 Mar 2015 16:09:12
Jred, I wouldn't worry. While you struggle to contain your gag reflex at the hypocrisy of some shown on here, and the tired attempts to defend the volte-face, be assured, that after another bad defeat, Nomidfield will be back to his usual doom and gloom. He's up and down like a hure's knickers.
I still remember vividly his post last season, hoping the Scousers would beat us, just to hasten Moyes' demise. Take with a pinch of salt, mate.
02 Mar 2015 16:32:15
Good post, where does pessimism and negativity get you? The term 'supporter' is lost on many. Believe!
02 Mar 2015 19:38:34
Jred
I have said we will not finish top 4 and still believe that. The romantic optimist after beating a poor sunderland team at home, believe that we have suddenly clicked.
As far as I am concerned nothing has changed. We beat poor teams who are all in the relegation zone and struggling at home with a lot of labor and then go away and drop points. That has been our form for the last 2 or 3 months.
This manager has not been able to win enough games away and against any decent opposition away we are the ones generally having to huff and puff to get a point. Finally, No point in discussing anything with certain posters here as they have very little objectivity if you know what i mean:)
Nomid
I hope you are right and we somehow get there. Needless to say everyone is behind the team
03 Mar 2015 06:28:23
GCU.Jred, StevieK (Noucamp)
Blind allegiance and support to a Manager, a transient employee of the club should not be a given. Just because SAF said support your new manager it seems to have triggered an emotional side to people, who then after 26 years of SAF think it is a badge to collect to say give the manager, all managers this magical thing called time. SAF got time from us because his excellent CV from Aberdeen said he knew how to win, we watched his Aberdeen beat the old firm and win in Europe so we gave him trust, his CV merited it. His replacement arrived with a CV long discussed on here but he had won nothing, lacking the criteria set out and the level of gravitas to earn our respect and that of the players. LvG does have a CV that says he can re structure clubs from basics, he has won domestically and in Europe so like SAF but probably not to the same level he has a CV that earns a level of trust far more than the previous incumbent.
GDS said it and I say it, you guys can't get over that you were wrong on Moyes. All managers need time is a glib high horse attitude, all managers with the necessary experience need time and need to outline a satisfactory vision. There is a reason why there are different levels of trust and I coukd talk to you about Docherty, Sexton and Atkinson as well because they all had the same thing. Move on from last year, that shocking year caused us too many problems.
03 Mar 2015 08:02:47
Gcu
i had us down as getting 4th at the start of the season, its going to be tight .
i think we have the players to do it but That is the heart talking.
if we don't improve our football, like arsenal and liverpool have we may miss out.
on current form i would take arsenal and the scouse to pick up more points than us.
southampton don't have a bad run in if they can remember how to score and are still playing some nice stuff.
i can't make my mind up about spurs.
i think united may need one of our stars to pick it up and drag us over the line, maybe rooney to score a few, he tends to score in batches or maybe di maria or falcao to provide that spark.
03 Mar 2015 08:52:17
Redman
No not at all, calling for one manager to be sacked "from day one" just because you didn't rate him, blaming him for every single thing that happened at the club again due to the fact you didn't rate him and then shouting for every one to back lvg just because you do rate him is out of order.
Add to the fact that on more than one occasion you have defended lvg for the same thing you berated moyes for is the height of hypocrisy imo.
back lvg due to his cv ? problem is as i have gone over in the past i'm not that impressed with his cv, he was imo a top manager 20 years ago .
since then very hit and miss .
Just to point out this isn't about moyes v lvg i don't think either has done a good job or are the right man for the job.
Its the sheer BS of some fans trying to preach back the manager .
"Back the manager as long as redman rates him "
03 Mar 2015 09:37:48
Red Man, I'm touched by your renewed enthusiasm for supporting the club, I really am. It's lovely to see you so excited again about our prospects, and even deigning to go back to OT this season after your self-imposed exile last season. I'm genuinely happy for you.
But along with this new evangelism, enough already please, with the Mel Gibson-like rallying cries, and lectures on how to support a manager.
I may have disagreed with Danny last season, but at least he has been consistent in his position.
Moyes last season, was no more my first choice than LVG was for you this season. It was a big job for him, and I thought he deserved every chance to help him succeed, just like any new manager would. He wasn't backed properly, he struggled and now he's gone. No one will ever know if he would have turned things around. Not even you. My ego really isn't that insecure, that I have to try and stick up for someone, just to try and win an argument on a banter site. I don't lie awake at night thinking, 'oh no, Red Man was right about Moyes, and I wasn't'. Please. I thought we were grown-ups.
You went on and on last season about there being, 'no plan'. Can you enlighten me as to what the plan is this year that makes you think LVG is deserving of your support? I just see a lot of muddled decision-making to be honest. And from a man who is always so sure about his own ability.
03 Mar 2015 12:01:58
The board also thought he couldn't turn it around after last season. Oh I am consistent because I judge the two mangers in the same way, one didn't have the experience and one has relevant experience, two different starting points as well. I must point out yet again I am not an advocate of LvG but merely point out why, in my opinion he deserves more time.
A plan, a decent question.
At senior management level I would have expected both Moyes and LvG to have submitted a strategic plan to the board, they should have evaluated that and I would imagine it would form part of any decision to retain a manager. The only point I would make here is that I recall Guilem Ballague saying LvG actually took the Barca way of playing which had often been spoken about and wrote it out in detail
It is up to the board to decide on the quality of a plan but they tend not to be just short term
03 Mar 2015 12:42:01
So plan-wise, we're really none the wiser. And yet it was such a core part of your argument last season - Moyes doesn't have a plan. It was re-iterated time and time again. Nevermind that he would have had to have shown a plan to the board. You didn't see one, so there mustn't have been one. Yet this year, it doesn't seem so important to you. Ah sure, Balague mentioned something about Barcelona - that'll do for me.
I really don't mind that you are getting behind the team and manager this year, as opposed to the active opposition last year, when you announced that you were not attending any games because the manager didn't meet with your approval. A slap in the face I thought, to those who would love to be in the position to go and watch Utd regularly, but nevertheless I think it's great to see fans giving the manager a chance at the start of their tenure.
I do so mind the regular call to arms though. The denunciation of anyone who dares to question LVG, and most amusingly, the exhortations to all of us to stop being so negative. And if you still fail to see the irony in that, then I'll assume it's deliberate.
03 Mar 2015 13:27:52
I think as long as we give the manager a bit of time and get behind the team, then we will come good in the long run. let's see what happens in the next few games, some games that look straightforward for other teams might not turn out that way. Injuries, loss of form can play its part. Also some teams that are struggling for survival could be the most difficult to beat.
StevieK, it is a shame that you decide to find a negative in everything I say. When I right a negative post, you mock, when I write a positive post, you deride. Shame, I think you have a problem mate! In any case you are entitled to your views but suffice to say, that sarcasm is the lowest form of wit.
I agree with RedMan in that Moyes should never have been appointed, and we will all be calling for his head if he had stayed. I think GDS, Shawthing, Sam and rozmcr try to stay positive all the time and there's nothing wrong with that.
The main thing is to stay positive, take one game at a time and I'm sure there are going to be lots of twists and turns before the end of the season.
03 Mar 2015 14:28:32
NoMidfield, you're not above a little bit of riling too - GCU and his Liverpool prediction? You seemed to like rubbing his nose in that. I've seen other attempts to try and put posters down, too, so enough of the mock outrage, please.
I disagree with a lot of your stuff, because it does change from from one week to the next. There is no consistency whatsoever. One week you're saying LVG is a great appointment, a couple of defeats later, and you're starting to rally the lynch-mob, saying he needs to get his finger out, and then a couple of wins later, you're calling on us all to get behind the manager! Which is it this week?
But what really sticks in my throat, (apart from hoping the Scousers would beat us), is having to listen to hypocritical lectures from you and Red Man on 'staying positive', or 'getting behind the team'. I always have, mate. Not just when it suits me.
03 Mar 2015 14:33:50
Sorry, I forgot - "the main thing is to stay positive". I really wonder if you see the irony in that sentence, coming from someone who couldn't wait til half-time in matches to start a rant. Remember how we used to think you were a troll when you first started, like our new friend Jamie?
Not much positivity there at all.
03 Mar 2015 18:28:26
Noucamp, StevieK
In terms of Moyes plan, well it would be easier to conclude he didn't have one or it was a very poor one given item one seemed to have been replace experienced Champion winning back room team with Everton's and install underdog mentality.
You dismissed LvG having a plan at Barca, have a read of what Ballague said.
"If you want to understand what's happened with Barcelona in the last decade or so, you have to go back to the job he (LvG) put in there. If you want to understand what Bayern Munich are now, you have to understand what he did at Bayern Munich.
"He is a fantastic manager with a big idea of how the club should be run.
"He comes to Barcelona after Johann Cruyff - Bobby Robson was there for a year - but then he takes over and says, 'Okay, what did Johann Cruyff say?' Well, he said all these things and left nothing written. He put the whole structure of the club in place, started working on the positional game, he put the likes of Xavi and Puyol in the team and certainly was a guy whose dream was to have 11 players from the lower ranks of Barcelona to win the European Cup.
Now you are also getting irrational, "hypocritical lectures on getting behind the team", I didn't think that was in question, we all support the club, the team, but judging the aptitude of a manager is different.
03 Mar 2015 20:25:37
Ballague, really, we are judging lvg on what he said ?.
Or what lvg done nearly 20 years ago at Barcelona.
Dear me redman you should have a good read about barcelona and see who was really behind there success.
A process that started at the club before lvg and was successful after he left ( when they where 3 points above relegation ).
He was at munich for less than 2 years left them in 4th . Read what hoeness the main man at munich had to say about lvg.
This is just a taste
.
"Football should be enjoyable, but there has been nothing enjoyable about football at FC Bayern for a while now.
"And to say that he had the players behind him was a myth."
"Problems were created which were totally unnecessary and which have ripped the club to pieces.
"Louis Van Gaal should consider what he has done."
there where fan protest at the style of play.
lvg left, munich won the treble the following year the league by about 20 points .
but if ballague said he done a great job
03 Mar 2015 21:26:23
Is boycotting OT because of your dislike of the manager, 'getting behind the team'? You withdrew your vocal support for the team, when they needed as much as possible. That seems quite irrational to me.
Anyway, carry on. Just go easy on the sermons, please. Especially when I've just eaten.