25 Feb 2015 14:19:39
I'm going to try and make an optimistic post that is in favour of LVG and see where I go with it. But I am expecting a massive improvement next season.
LVG has faced 4 main problems:
I think part of the problem has been that he did not have long to evaluate the players in pre-season as his focus was rightfully on Holland. A meticulously planned manager such as LVG needs a LONG time to plan his tactics, get the players that he wants for roles and to get it all to gel. He requires intelligent players (if footballers can be classed as intelligent). Within just a few days of his arrival we jetted off to America and began to travel, this did not give him long on the training ground to get to work.
His second problem was the summer transfer window. Not knowing what formation would be best to play was a serious problem, he bought he thought would fit in but that hasn't yet worked out for him. He was also unable to sign players that he wanted to, namely Hummels who will totally transform our style of play.
The third problem has clearly been injuries, an incredible amount that would even cripple the likes of Real Madrid. It is testament to the spirit that he has injected into the team that we are in the top 4.
The last problem has been misfiring strikers. No one expected RVP to be quite so bad under LVG, they are after all best mates and he had a stunning World Cup. Falcao the same, very poor and missing the easiest of chances.
I am positive in that LVG is slowly analysing the squad. A lot of the chaff has been separated from the wheat and we are seeing a more streamlined squad. But what is crucial is that we choose a system to go with and tailor the summer towards that system, even if it meant signing someone undesirable or 'boring', like a De Jong for example. Now, I do hope this system is a 4-3-3, you could see how lovely it worked for Barcelona yesterday against City and how well it tends to work for Madrid.
Let's just hope the summer does not see a scatter gun approach again to signings and that more consideration goes in to each and every one.
25 Feb 2015 14:46:34
"Let's just hope the summer does not see a scatter gun approach again to signings and that more consideration goes in to each and every one". Fresh
Sorry, Fresh mate. Had to chuckle at your last line, when I think of the hundreds of names you've thrown on here on a daily basis over the years :)
25 Feb 2015 15:19:47
Unless inheriting a great side most managers need time. I was against LVG, mostly due to his age, because the older the manager they get set in their ways. This is fine if they are with a team they built, but imo a huge hindrance coming to a new team. So I'm hoping he gets his 3 years and we improve in each of those years.
25 Feb 2015 15:24:17
Fresh - Interesting points:
The World Cup wasn't ideal and somebody like LVG is meant to benefit from more time I agree. However it wasn't as if he was coming in to manage FC Baku or something, Man Utd can be watched anywhere at any time, there is more than enough footage/info available for a half competent researcher to know everything they need to know in a couple of weeks.
Furthermore what do you think these managers do during their World Cup time? There is only so much preparation you can plan for, or training time allocated to players, the players bitch about boredom, so just imagine how much prep work could be done by LVG during the off time at the World Cup. I think this problem is over egged. Furthermore he has 50 odd staff who he trusts implicitly apparently, so what were they doing whilst the World Cup was going on?
He has now had time, nominal injuries, no fixture congestion and what do we see week in week out, any improvement?
Give any other manager £150m+ to spend and the team would resemble their team after a few months, he spent poorly or didn't spend in the right places. His dream players may or may not have been available, but that is the case for every manager typically. I'm sure Arsenal would have wanted a World Class CB or Liverpool a World Class striker. To say it isn't right to judge him because he didn't get his dream player is very weak. Half the people on here don't even want Hummels or Strootman.
"Sorry I couldn't sell the car for you boss, but the gullible guy I wanted to visit the showroom didn't turn up so I couldn't sell it!" You'd be sacked in a second.
Injuries is a cop out, most teams have injuries and he chose a formation which actually highlighted our injuries more, why have 3 CB's when you don't have any fit?
I'm sure he is analysing the squad, that's what he is paid to do, but the results of that analyses are not being read correctly. Every time he does something right he changes it the next game. I think he is looking at a picture and wanting to see a unicorn, so eventually he see's a unicorn. Everyone else see's an old nag (I'm not just talking about RVP here either)!
I doubt we will see scatter gun to be fair, but I don't know how we expect to compete for the top class players we need when other teams look ten times better, he is not likeable and they will have seen how our latest batch of world class talents have crumbled under his stewardship.
We have problems with wages now, so that trump card has been wasted.
25 Feb 2015 15:27:19
I think people need to stop buying into van Gaal's own mythology. Football doesn't work in the sense that the manager performs alchemy behind closed doors and then after 3 or 6 or 12 months the team magically clicks. Strategic transformations are incremental, we should be seeing the team getting more and more used to van Gaal's methods and tactics. In turn, you would expect that the more players get used to the new system, the better the team will play.
This just hasn't happened. There has been no visible improvement in our performances since the season started. In turn, even when we had minimal injuries, the performances didn't really improve.
If the argument is that until van Gaal gets to bring in a significant amount of the players he really wants, we won't see any major improvement or that he's waiting until he gets more players before he plays the formation he wants to go with in the long term. Then I'm not buying it. Good managers are capable of getting the best out of what they have at their disposal. We don't have a terrible squad, we have spent big money his season and one player isn't going to make everything fall into place. The manager needs to show us that the team is improving under his leadership, end of.
25 Feb 2015 15:41:38
I'm not the boss though so I can freely speculate :) If anything it generates a good discussion!
25 Feb 2015 16:01:34
Danny
Top post
25 Feb 2015 17:02:56
I think your getting too hung up on the 150 million. That was only a fraction of what needed to be spent. Look at what City and Chelsea have spent over the last decade to catch us up. At the sane time we stood still so they didn't just catch up they overtook us.
Last season exposed this squad for what it was. A collection of average players with a lack of quality. I seem to remember during fergies last season shahram saying we needed 10 new players and he got laughed off the board. 2 years on he's been proved right.
We sold Ronaldo for a record fee and replaced him with a guy 3 levels below him for less than a quarter of the fee. I like Valencia, he's a tryer, but he needs an upgrade.
It was pretty clear before the South African world cup evra was in decline. Syd got hammered on a regular basis for pointing this out yet it took four years to replace him.
And that's before we even get to midfield.
We're paying the price for a decade of underinvestment and last season and this season the pigeons have come home. Even the 200 million moyes and van gaal went through has been misspent.
25 Feb 2015 17:32:38
Beast and Danny, I do totally agree with you both. I was just trying to potentially put a different spin on things and offer up some different arguments as to why things haven't improved. I think we will see an improvement next year if he remains here, but if Ancelotti, Pep or even Klopp are available then I would have no hesitation in sacking him providing one of them was guaranteed to come in for us.
25 Feb 2015 17:33:25
Also rumours now that DDG and LVG aren't on speaking terms. Looks like he may have fallen out with a big player, didn't take long. He has picked the wrong one though as if this is true then I think DDG will get more of a backing from the fans than LVG will.
25 Feb 2015 17:45:00
So does that put to bed "this is a title winning team " argument from last year.
I argued long and hard that wasnt a great team, i think this current team is much better
25 Feb 2015 17:54:31
£150m is a huge spend. But the main thing is that people aren't expecting us to be back at the level we were before we sold Ronaldo. What people are looking at is how much we have improved from last season given that we spent a huge amount of money in the summer. Nobody is expecting us to win the league or perform at the level of Real, Bayern, or even Chelsea and City. But the harsh reality that people are constantly trying to excuse is that van Gaal has yet to produce the improvement in performance over last year that he and the club promised.
People are saying that we need to give van Gaal three seasons a hundreds of millions of pounds before we can judge him. That's nonsense, you judge a manager on how is performing given the resources they currently have at their disposal. Despite having better players and less fixtures than last season, we are only performing very marginally better than Moyes's United. That simply isn't good enough and van Gaal needs to prove that his methods are working if he wants to convince the club and us supporters that he is the right person to rebuild.
25 Feb 2015 18:10:00
MrE - I agree the £150m doesn't tell the whole story, so its easy to bang that drum, we clearly are suffering due to a lack of shrewd investment in earlier years.
Maybe the more accurate statement should be, do we look more like a team that had £150m invested or £150m of talent leave this summer?
25 Feb 2015 18:37:02
Its not just an improvement from last season its from the start of the season .
25 Feb 2015 19:22:38
The thing that annoys me is both LVG and our Captain thought the performance was good enough against Swansea. It was slightly better but not what we are aiming towards, "the only thing we forgot was to score", who do you think you are kidding?!
Then you have LVG saying pre-season was good. We played awful, we just got results because teams were not fit and trying things out. The games could have gone either way easily, but he is using that as a benchmark for the future!
That should tell us all we need to know. What he is aiming for is so far below what we expect it's beyond words!
25 Feb 2015 19:42:46
Great analysis Danny.
Been saying the same and truly believe many other managers would get a lot more out of this squad and many more points on the board by now. He us more hype and very poor man manager. If we end up losing players like DDG if true what is rumoured because of his abusive bs, the damage to the club will be a lot more than not finishing in the top 4.
This idea of give him more time is madness. What is time going to do if you are on the wrong path. Anyone who thinks Strootman is our solution is beyond his sell by date and he will spend money on players according to his vision that will even sink us more.
Let's face it we have been poor with a quality squad, so who is to blame.
25 Feb 2015 20:47:43
GCU, Fresh
The DDG LvG "fall out" rumour is being put out by AS which is the Real Madrid mouthpiece used to try and unsettle players.
25 Feb 2015 21:18:46
Isn't Marca the Madrid mouthpiece? My problem with De Gea is simply that the longer this drags on and if we fall further from the top 4 he will seriously consider his options. If the deal is not sealed by the end of March I think he may be gone.
26 Feb 2015 15:39:26
Redman
The proof is in the pudding, let's see if he signs. One thing we know for sure, LVG's reputation and history has him falling out with players, and clubs.