22 Feb 2015 10:26:18
So the debate rumbles on, is it the players fault or the Managers fault. Several players are out of rom but it is the Manager who keeps on picking them.
I thought we were better yesterday I n terms of our overall play but I can't get comfortable its Fellaini at the tip. 1 up front with Rooney at the tip, or Rooney up front with Mata at the tip might help us create more chances.
I don't think we are a million miles away from clicking. We have good players going forward and just need to find that magic formula.
And Shawthing, you may disagree with a poster but you don't have to stoop to name calling. Pathetic wimp? Completely unnecessary
22 Feb 2015 10:53:26
Its a bit of both
22 Feb 2015 11:27:23
Did i stoop to name calling? I don't remember doing so. If so, I apologize.
22 Feb 2015 11:36:33
Looking back, are you referring to the "pathetic wimp" comment? That was directed at Di Maria if, as jred asserted, his generally poor form is attributable to LVG's criticism. I stand by that comment. A highly paid professional rises above such trivial things and proves the critics wrong, and doesn't go into a sulk. Di Maria had ample opportunities yesterday to take advantage of the space he had on the left, and failed abysmally. His corner taking was once again atrocious. I just don't see how that's the manager's responsibility, and if it is it's emblematic of the nanny state we're in.
22 Feb 2015 12:24:42
Shaw
I have explained my point further down the page
22 Feb 2015 12:32:33
The problem yesterday, as it was in the two games prior to it, is that our lack of width makes us slow and predictable. If we have three of Rooney, RVP, Fellaini, Mata and Falcao as the front three players, this means that our attacking focal points are all playing centrally. In addition, because Di Maria, Herrera and Januzaj are being asked to play in the centre, all our width is coming from the full backs. This means that when we move the ball forward, we have to look backwards or sideways for any width. In turn, this means that the opposition defence isn't being stretched and they can contain our attack simply by tightly marking in the central areas. Then if we need a goal to get back in the game, our primary means is to lump the ball up to Fellaini in the hop that he knocks it down to the other players clustered around the centre of the box.
Whenever we have played with wingers we have looked faster, more threatening and more balanced. We don't need to play with wingers because it's the United way or the Fergie way or anything like that. We need to play with wingers or wide forwards because without width we are toothless and predictable. This season just seems like a constant battle to get van Gaal to accept that certain ways of playing are just far more effective in the EPL.
22 Feb 2015 13:26:27
Danny, I thought we had quite good width yesterday, we just didn't do anything with it. Plenty space was created on the left in particular where Shaw and Di Maria were dominant for the whole first half. As I've said further down, it's my belief that had Di Maria exhibited the quality one would expect from a 60m man, we would have scored a couple more goals, or at least had some very good chances. The right hand side was less proficient simply because McNair was isolated, with Herrera drifting more to the middle.
Just playing with wingers isn't going to cut it if the final ball is crap. I can't help thinking of that game last season when we had 100 crosses or something. What width does is create space in the centre, allowing the creative players the space to do their thing. With skillful wide players there is no aimless crossing, only passing that just happens to come from a wide position. Do we have anyone who is of that quality?
22 Feb 2015 14:27:06
I have to agree with Danny on this one. We are not set up right. We get space out wide only on a switch. Sometimes Di Maria or Shaw got space to run with the ball, but the defense was still deep enough to handle the crosses.
Also, with our three players furthest forward - RVP, Rooney, and Fellaini - all playing centrally, we not only lacked widith, as Danny said, but they were also poor in not making any runs behind the defense. Whenever Fellaini, received, EVERY other player waited for a back pass. No one ran beyond Fellaini for a flick on, or a quick layoff and through ball.
22 Feb 2015 14:30:03
There's a difference between ineffective and effective wing play.
Poor wing play is primarily about working it down the line and crossing it in. This is what a lot of lower league teams do because they think that if they play the percentages and cross it in enough times, they're bound to score. We played that way last season, at times, and it was woeful.
Good wing play is about having attacking wide players who can either go down the line or cut inside, preferably with pace. Because the wide players are encouraged to drive forward into the box, the opposition cannot simply set up to defend against crosses. This form of wing play is designed to stretch the defence, meaning that there is more space in the centre for forwards and midfielders to create and score. Think of how Real or Chelsea play.
At the moment all our attacks are aimed toward flooding the central areas, be it trying to pass through the middle, work the full backs into a crossing position or hit it long into the forwards. Opposition defences can see this and know that if they set up to defend centrally, they can comfortably cope with everything we throw at them. This is why even weak teams like Cambridge and Preston have contained us for long periods. When we play with width players like Rooney, RVP and Falcao have more space. Defenders can't double up and they have more opportunity to lose their markers. Yesterday was indicative of the limitations of the diamond. When we go behind the only strategy is to hit it high and hit it long because we lack the wide players to run at the opposition with speed and drag defenders away from the middle. Every single time this season when we have played with genuine wingers, we have looked a million times better.
22 Feb 2015 15:10:18
Danby, I take your point about good/bad wing play in theory. But at the end of the day, good wing play is simply about creating chances for the forwards. Arguably the most effective wide player in the EPL era was David Backham simply because of the quality of his crosses and the n7mner of chances he created. Of course, it is all 'horses for courses' and what works for one team may not suit another.
But taking yesterdays game as an example, we got plenty of good possession in wide areas, and simply did nothing with it.
Do you think that vanGaal actually tells DiMaria that if he is in a good crossing position with forwards in good areas, not to cross it?