21 Feb 2015 20:18:58
If anyone thought, after last season's debacle, that this season was going to be plain sailing I'd like some of what you're having.
LvG has attempted 3 at the back. The response was emphatic and widespread. Howls of derision and demands for a return to the halcyon days of a back 4.
This was, (upon the return from injury of several key players, remember) eventually delivered. The diamond, I was told by many, was golden. It was the future. However, performances have not been of a high standard. "No width!" Was the howl. "Why's LvG playing the diamond?? It's too narrow, we play with wingers!".
Rooney in midfield, another LvG faux pas which was to blame for poor performances. RvP and Falcao cannot play together, any mug can see that! Why would a manager persevere with the outlandish idea of pairing 2 of world football's leading marksmen in the same team?
Both issues were resolved today as LvG dropped Falcao and duly moved Rooney forward into a centre forward role.
The result? LvG has caused a defeat with his ineptitude.
At what point do his players shoulder the blame? why are they unable to execute any formation attempted? they should not be alien concepts to them.
I love listening to van Gaal talking to the press etc. How anyone can listen to the man and think "clueless" is utterly beyond me. He clearly has a deep understanding of football that is far beyond yours or mine.
He inherited a quivering, decimated wreck of a squad that was devoid of confidence and ideas. Doesn't he deserve the time his pedigree has earned? He has steadied the ship. That was job one. Having done so whilst overseeing a complete overhaul of the squad and attempting to establish a completely new ethos and (I know) "philosophy" is quietly impressive, in my opinion.
He is well within sight of fulfilling his remit for the season of a top 4 berth and a tilt at a trophy. What were we all expecting after last year? Domestic treble?
Rome, as pointed out earlier, was not built in a day.
21 Feb 2015 20:37:30
Slow possession based football hoping that someone does something special.
This is how lvg teams have played for a number of years.
Its not pretty to watch but it works to an extent, a couple of titles in the last 15 years.
21 Feb 2015 21:22:18
Jred, can you see slow, possession based football working in the premier league? I think van Gaal has been caught off guard by the fact that football is generally played with strength and pace in the premier league, I reckon he thought he could come here and play a more tactical, European style of football and teams would roll over, I think he is finding out the hard way that there are no easy games in England.
21 Feb 2015 21:27:54
Sam, I give you a 'virtual' round of applause for that post. I completely agree with all of it. I started a post very similar earlier in in reply to Bazza down the page. I accidentally sent it before it was finished and asked the Ed not to post it. I won't bother rewriting it because you have just done it for me!!!
Its about time the anti LvG brigade stopped blaming the manager for everything, and looked a little closer at our over paid, under performing players. Sure, the manger has made some strange decisions and must take some of the blame. But week in, week out, this group of players is letting the fans, the manager and the club down.
We have become a victim of desperation, and succumbed to the impossible demands of instant success. We have enjoyed and unbelievable 20 odd years under Fergie. But that is in the past. The game has changes dramatically in the last few years with the input of "new money", and the SAF era, we will never the the like of again.
In my view, for Manchester United the move forwards, we need to stop looking at the past. Whether or not LvG is the man to take us forwards I don't know. But in my view, to enable long term success, we may need to sacrifice the short term demands for instant success. Spend and recruit wisely, rather than spending huge fees on short term fixes.
It is my view that players like ADM and Falcao are only here because, out of desperation, we have paid more than anyone else would have. There two players in particular have been afforded far more excuses for poor performances than anyone, just because of who they are. I hear people saying that Falcoa is feeding off scaps etc so has no chance. While I agree he has not had the best of service, he has missed bags of good chances when he has played. Time will tell if he will ever be the player he was before his injury, but I suspect it won't be at United. DiMaria looks anything but a world class performer. I know its his first season in English football, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was Aldo his last. For £60 million, I think it is fair for the fans to expect more.
Other than DeGae, can anyone tell me one single United player that has lived up to expectation this year? Maybe Blind and Dojo, and I think Herrera not playing has been LvG's biggest error. Other than that, the whole lot of them have underperformed terribly.
In my opinion, we need to pick a long term manager. Stick with him, ba k him in the transfer market and allow him to build his own team. Not keep hiring and firing to satisfy the demands of the "I want instant success" fans. Manchester United is a club build on history and tradition. We should all remember that, and support the club and the team through the tough times. There is no quick fix. And spending ridiculous fees on players whose hearts are not in the club will not guarantee success.
In fact, it is usually a case of the bigger the transfer fee, the bigger the disappointment in reality. Over the years, look at the biggest transfer fees in world football, and how many really live up to expectation. Zidane and C Rinaldo granted, but on the whole they end up disappointing.
21 Feb 2015 21:55:03
finally someone who talks sence.
21 Feb 2015 22:08:34
Stoat
No
Betty
Di maria started really well looked exactly what he had been for the past few years years.
But then 2 things happened.
1 he got injured
2 van gaal openly criticized him.
21 Feb 2015 22:15:07
Apologies for the auto correct spellings!! And that was a reply to the OP from Sakhere, not Sam :)
21 Feb 2015 22:38:36
Seriously jred? You are going to make excuses for Di Maria's performance today? Only a pathetic wimp responds to criticism, such as it was, in such a manner.
This thread pretty much hits the nail on the head. If we play 3 at the back, the manager gets pilloried, and if we play 4 it's the same - and that's because our players are simply not stepping up to the mark. Maybe now RVP's injured LVG can start to play with one striker, which is what we need to be doing since our midfield and defence are still suspect.
I am sure LVG has been surprised by the pace and physicality of the English game, but that too does not excuse highly paid professionals not being able execute basic control, passing properly. We created many opportunities to set up chances today, but failed to capitalize, and that's down to the players, not the manager.
21 Feb 2015 23:19:26
Jred, that is no excuse. He has been crap for most of the season. Certainly not a £60m player. I remember I posted a long time before we bought him that DiMaria was too lightweight and inconsistent for United or the EPL. I can't be bothered to trawl through old posts, but I am 99% sure that you agrees with me at the time.
I know you are in the anti LvG brigade, but sooner or later you lot must accept that the players must take a large chunk of the blame. Same as last year under Moyes. Maybe neither are right for United, but who is?
I'm afraid that, like I said earlier, we are looking to the past rather than the future. The SAF era will never be repeated by any club, so we need to look ahead and build for the future.
This is a bit off topic now, but I do not think it is a good thing that SAF is still so involved at the club. I'm sure he is still having a huge influence on the football side of things. If he wants to do that, why not just continue managing the team?
Whoever is our manager going forwards, he should have full control. SAF wouldn't have accepted anything less, so why should anyone else?
22 Feb 2015 08:35:58
Betty nice post and I agree with having a stable manager for the long term success of the club and long term planning.
I just do not see LVG being the guy to do that and to be honest, yes the players are to take some of the blame but he is most culpable for what we are seeing. Football players are not mathematical geniuses and he has this entire team confused with the constant changing because he reckons himself to be master tactician.
Unfortunately sometimes you do more harm than good when you introduce too many things at once and ask players to do things that do not come to them naturally. It is like asking your 14 year old to learn 5 new languages at once and most are not capable of that.
The body language between Giggs and him is not good at all and I am starting to see the same with a lot of the players on the pitch. I think as usual nothing is said but we are not too far off from hearing discontent and people openly questioning it.
I can not see us finishing top 4 and dread the thought of being completely embarrassed at one in any of the games against top opposition. I can not see how he can keep his job.
We have spent 150 million this year and finishing outside the top 4 is a one place improvement that is if we finish 5th on last year given Everton's season so the reality is he can not stay and a sackable offense for any manager.
He is also no SAF and his CV pales when compared to great man so I am not basing my view on that comparison, but to try and make excuses for him if we finish outside the top 4 is ludicrous and he will do more harm than good if retained long term.
Over the last few weeks I have maintained he will lose the last bastion of support within the fans and unfortunately it is coming earlier than I expected as results like yesterday are just not acceptable by any yard stick. He has been on the job for 7 months, a full squad to choose from and it seems like there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
We lost to a very poor Swansea team yesterday and are ripe picking for any team in the league with this style of play and had they passed a bit better Gomes would have been on a break away a few times and would have scored. Better teams will pick us off and embarrass us.
22 Feb 2015 10:05:07
Betty
I rate di maria i don't really rate lvg.
Is di maria happy at the club, at the role he is playing .
Are we getting the best out of him.
I would have to say no.
I still think he is a top player and think he will come good
22 Feb 2015 11:03:06
Shawthing
Its the role di maria is being asked to play.
He was playing well breaking forward with pace in short playing his natural game .
Then came lvg comments about him needing to be a team player and to stop playing for himself .
this for me raises questions about what di maria is being asked to do.
1. Run at people try and make things happen.
2. Or keep the ball don't lose possession .
the first way is di maria natural game the latter isn't .
truth is he has been injured, had issues of the pitch been asked to play a number of roles in a new league.
but for some reason his performances have gone backwards
22 Feb 2015 12:00:44
Jred
The issue is nowhere to run for ADM mate. With our build up play, the opposing 11 can have a glass of wine whilst leisurely getting into position and getting their lines set up. Di-Maria has no gaps to run into and always looking at 2 or 3 defenders covering him and no space. This style of ply nullifies even Ronaldo and Bale as they are also players who like to run at the opposition and space to run into and more suited to Messi but we don't have messi in our team :)
This possession style play is overrated as it creates very little and so so easy to defend against. BTW our goal yesterday came from us breaking at pace and not passing it around 40 yards from their goal backwards and sideways and breaking them down.
Pace and Width is what is needed with strikers and midfielders running into the box but he is blind to it because he is defensive minded manager. City is best at it and when they have their full squad great to watch. No coincidence they have won the league 2 out of 3 and still expect them to win it this year.
22 Feb 2015 12:23:12
Gcu
I agree but the problem is this is the lvg way.
People go on about him winning a title with munich, but the football he played was poor to watch .
Imo he has managed like this for 15 year it works to a point but its not for me
22 Feb 2015 12:56:57
Jred
We are seeing the same thing mate. I think someone pointed out up the page playing with wingers is not a Fergie thing but best way to break down teams in the PL. It pulls defenders out and opens up gaps and space in the box.
Fergie just happened to be a lot better manager that people give him credit and knew how to set up teams to score and win. I know people might not agree but the best team in the league IMO is city and they play a 442 without complicating things and look scary when they are fit and can field their best 11. Granted we don't have their players but we are not miles off either.
I wonder what Giggsy is thinking sitting there watching this.