12 Feb 2015 11:27:28
All this bashing of Moyes from the LVG loyalist camp is really starting to irk me. By no means am I saying Moyes did a good job but there were many mitigating factors as to why he didn't fulfil our expectations. Before he had even began at United he was already sipping from a poison chalice.
He arrived at a time were we had just won the league and the board failed to improve our squad or give him financial backing the way LVG has had. He identified targets to take us up a level Fabregas, Baines etc and was let down by the board. Adding to this he effectively paved the way for Shaw and Herrera to join LVG at OT.
His team were riddled with injuries more so than LVG's during his tenure. Adding to this he was competing in the CL with an ageing team that had zero rejuvenation in the transfer window. He had to rely on youth and players he wanted to replace.
On top of this he was unfortunate to come in at a time where Arsenal had their best season for 10 years, Liverpool their best for 20 who were scoring for fun. Title favourites City were rampaging on and the Mourinho factor was back at the bridge. Without Investment even SAF would have struggled last year and LVG without his £160million would have finished 10th based on this years performances.
If Moyes was in charge this season Rooney would be up top, Herrera would play every game and we would play four at the back. Januzaj would be developing and he wouldn't be afraid to drop a certain RVP.
If you want to laud LVG then fine but to put Moyes down for struggling without investment during arguably the toughest premier league season is ignorant and pigheaded.
12 Feb 2015 12:06:14
Juan,
I presume this is aimed at my replied to GCU below, I am not going to go into it again, but I have certainly not 'lauded' LVG, I have just simply stated comparing him to Moyes is ridiculous.
It is easy to say 'if Moyes was here this season then we would be doing so and so' with no facts that this is the case and when nobody can prove you wrong, but based on last season I don't see why we would suddenly be really good this year.
I am intrigued why LVG would have finished 10th inheriting a team of champions when he has a team that finished 7th in 3rd place or is that just you making another point that is impossible to backup or argue against?
Also - The Media were drumming up a lot of negativity about Moyes's experience, the opposite with LVG - he was the best thing since sliced bread (1928 haha) coming into the job.
Many fans were angry with Moyes for deploying "un-Utd" tactics at the end of games mainly - LVG gets a lot of praise (not by all) for salvaging points using long balls and playing Fellaini - hypocrisy.
Moyes was let down time and again by key players - DDG cup semi against Sunderland stands out - it simply hasn't happened for LVG, look at that Ings chance last night not being scored.
Cup draws for Moyes were a nightmare (we only just got beat by a great Bayern team remember) - LVG the exact opposite (MK Dons, Yeovil, Cambridge, Preston) come on!
Woodward was inexperienced with Moyes and got criticised - he then makes a statement of intent with LVG by going crazy in the market.
Old guard reluctant to change with Moyes's methods - LVG no longer has the old guard.
Everything was stacked against the guy, he was out of his depth without a shadow of a doubt and we were not pleasing on the eye. But everything is far worse now and this guy has major advantages!
Juanmatasbeard
I am no LvG loyalist as you put it, he wasn't my choice but LvG had a far more poisoned chalice than Moyes. Moyes just didn't have the acumen to do the job, got sacked and is now thankfully joyfully history. You should direct your frustration at those who keep mentioning him and trying to excuse Moyes and comparing him, wrongly, with LvG. I didn't want LvG but accepted he had at least the right level of experience to be considered for the role. Let's move on from a dark few months in our history and stop excusing the inexcusable from last season.
@jmb @Ed001
Read the debate on Moyes further down the page.
I don't think Moyes was the right man for the job, in that I don't think he could have won us the league or Champions League even if we didn't have the best squad by far (something the likes of Jose, Sir Alex etc. can do and what a Manchester United manager should be capable of).
But I don't think he is a poor manager who cannot get a team into the top 4 if the squad is good enough to be there. Also, he did a good job at Everton, and some Evertonians may have started to realize that by now.
Imo he was doomed to fail from the very start for the following reasons :-
1. He was given a 6 year contract and was in a false sense of job security along with the image that "Manchester United give their managers time and don't sack them within months".
His subsequent interviews have highlighted his surprise at being sacked. He was genuinely made to believe that he would be given time and this was a long term project.
2. He didn't make his biggest mistake during the season but before it started.
Point 1 meant that he was far more relaxed and didn't rip up the squad as soon as he came. (He has said that in the recent documentary). He gave the existing squad a chance.
I think this was his biggest mistake and we were always going to finish out of the top 4 after that.
3. It is clear Rio, Vidic and Evra were finished. Vidic isn't even in the squad in Italy! Add to that only one Manchester United standard midfielder and poor wingers.
Moyes may not have been the right manager, but he isn't blind. He did identify the weaknesses in the squad.
He was made to believe that the club would sign Bale/Ronaldo, Fabregas/Thiago, Fellaini, Baines/Shaw. Also I seem to remember the editor suggesting that David Gill went to Spain at the time to discuss Di Maria.
Its not Moyes' fault that the club had a disastrous summer window where they couldn't get any of his targets. There was no "we will spend what it takes" approach that year which was there this summer.
He identified 2 midfielders, a left back and winger was needed and if brought in, we would have finished top 4 imo. Our squad was probably 5th or 6th best last year in the league.
4. The failed summer window meant that Moyes had to rely on players who weren't in his long term plans and he thought he was going to be given time.
5. It is now clear that RVP is off the pace and is looking past it yet Moyes was blamed for his form. Also Jones, Evans, Smalling have persistent injuries and are not consistent in defense.
6. Moyes came in after Sir Alex had won the league with the worst squad to win the league in years which meant he came in with the target of having to win the league unlike LVG who only needs to make the UCL spots. That makes a big difference on pressure.
7. Arsenal, LFC, Everton, all had great seasons last year, unlike this year and had strengthened in the summer while the club couldn't secure Moyes' targets.
To summarize, I think Moyes simply became the fall guy for everything that was wrong at the club.
P.S. I have said at the beginning that I don't think he was right for the club to win the title/UCL. I hope the usual suspects stay away from the usual rhetoric about Moyes. The amount of vitriol that some have exhibited against Moyes is a bit shocking.
My problem with Moyes' is quite simple: He should have listened to SAF. He was the architect of his own demise.
Nice guy and I wish him all the best. But he wasn't the right person to do the job ultimately.
@GDS2
LVG has a team that finished 7th last season with the small change of having completely let go of most that team and added 150mil worth of talent into it. Our squad is good enough to finish third season, more than good enough in fact and we should be quite a few points away from the 4th placed side.
LVG has cost us points with his tactics, formations and playing players out of position. I don't see how anyone can argue with that.
12 Feb 2015 12:33:19
GDS - why is it ridiculous to compare the two? They are the only two whom we can compare in the modern era so for you to say it is ridiculous to compare is ridiculous in itself.
Did you read my post GDS? I said he would have finished 10th based on this years performaces (complete anti-football) when you consider the lethal form of our rivals last year.
To say he 'has them in third' is fine but he has spent £160million and was backed by the board. If Moyes was given the go ahead to bring in Cesc, Baines, Herrera and Bale, the lads he wanted, would he have finished 7th?
If you like LVG that's fine, but there is no need to constantly bash Moyes.
12 Feb 2015 12:37:17
Red Man - If LVG doesn't finish in the Champions League spots after splashing buckets of cash combined with the dross he has been serving up as performances then this season must be considered worse than Moye's.
Is that a fair statement?
12 Feb 2015 12:46:49
Juan,
Today is the first time I have mentioned Moyes for about 6 months, I have no interest in comparing the 2, that was my point, I have not constantly bashed him, he was rubbish, we finished 7th, there was no saving grace.
And Beast, you say Moyes was let down time and time again by key players suggesting LVG hasn't been, which as you well know, is rubbish.
Jmb
Simple answer is no, totally different starting point. Like I said we lost the fear factor and all momentum due to last season. If LvG doesn't make the top 4 and gets the sack I won't shed a tear but by previously appointing someone without the acumen to do the job we created a perfect storm as we did after Busby. To arrest the fall it will take some doing and the money doesn't give us back the momentum and fear of us that we lost, that takes time and results, it doesn't just happen by spending. There is no comparison between LvG and Moyes, we need to move on.
GDS2 - Moyes was under pressure to play the "Man Utd" way, he tried and the players let him down, so he had to resort to the rubbish we were served. LVG is forcing the team to play his "anti-football" way and as such is letting them down.
Moyes was out of his depth, but LVG is even further. Shame but it happens.
12 Feb 2015 13:51:21
I think he would argue he is well and truly within his depth, his target was top 4 and a good cup run, he is 3rd with a decent chance in the cup.
Give me LVG's anti-football over Moyes' rubbish any day of the week.
I recall fans calling Jose First Chelsea team a team that plays anti-football, but look where that got them.
Give me LVG's anti-football over Moyes' rubbish any day of the week.
I recall fans calling Jose First Chelsea team a team that plays anti-football, but look where that got them.
Moyes was plain rubbish simple as that. Whether anyone is lvg supporter or not doesn't matter one bit. Moyes was never a United manager and let's hope that is the end of that one. He is utter rubbish and that's putting it politely.