03 Feb 2015 14:05:01
So we are 2/3rd's of the way through the rebuild and we still look all over the place on the pitch in my view. Up against the top European teams now we would get a hiding or simply not attack and play for a sneaky 1-0, like we do against any mediocre opposition at home or any game away from home.
So the summer is crucial, my problem is next season we would expect to be in Europe again so whilst getting rid of squad players for the wage bill is great, what about the depth needed to play a lot more competitive games, we surely need a lot of signings I'm thinking 6-8?
Also Herrera, Shaw, ADM, Falcao have not settled yet at all. So if we need to make a lot more big signings next summer will we not be in trouble with re-introducing yet more players to a dysfunctional squad and system? It clearly takes a lot of time to understand LVG so by this time next season we could be in a similar position with people not settled potentially.
The existing players are adapting to a style and system which we haven't seen effective in practice yet but I imagine we must do soon (or LVG will be sacked), won't an influx of new players unsettle the learnings? Also he prefers 4-3-3 we haven't played this yet, so won't they need to learn how to play this, basically back to almost square one?
Wont we need to see some big name players being moved on as well so that we can strengthen with other big players because of FFP wages problems? Getting rid of squad players is all well and good, but we don't have the youth to replace them with and we get our pants pulled down for signing squad players like Blind & Rojo.
I think we will have a massive influx and exodus this summer, do we then have to give LVG another season to get it right? I can see the excuse brigade on full march next Autumn:
No strength in depth, injuries, players bedding in, new system, Europe to contend with, Competitors stronger, young players need time, blah blah blah.
I think this Winter was a wasted opportunity to bid for players whilst other clubs have problems with Transfer fees - more competition in the Summer for Hummels, Vidal, Pogba, Reus etc.
I also worry about our players looking so unfit now, how will they cope next season with more games - will we see an even slower style (is that even possible)?
Certain players simply will not be able to grasp LVG's philosophy, so will need to be moved on, players like Herrera, Januzaj, Fellaini, Mata, Rafael, Smalling, Jones, Evans. All players that may be shipped out imo, maybe even RVP for wages, maybe DDG because of the obvious.
Just some general points to consider. LVG will certainly earn his crust if he can sort this mess out, obviously not all of his making by any stretch, but I don't think he is doing himself any favours.
03 Feb 2015 14:42:14
Nothing new to see here mate, all the same stuff you have posted before. All of the rhetorical questions you ask could also be turned around into positives, but you ask them all expecting the answer to be negative, clever strategy but I imagine people will see through it.
The window is over, the next 4 months are important, get behind the lads and let's see if we can finish in the top 3, or even higher with a bit of luck.
03 Feb 2015 15:07:50
Don't stop his fun before he starts, u didn't even give redfaith his chance to back him up lol.
Beast i sometimes wonder if you are simply bored and want a argument.
why is it everyone assumes we should be playing this fantastic all out attacking football with tika taka passing and goals galore, because we have spend 150 million it must mean we should be automatically be at the toP?? NO.
we lost the core of the squad in the summer rio, vidic, evra, giggs, and had to get rid of a lot of average players, we signed some top quality players who need more time to settle and bed in. and unfortunately we have had a massive amount of injuries.
rojo is starting to look solid, shaw and di maria have just come back from injury and are getting a run of games and falcao is starting to find his feet after injury. blind is a good player and maybe if herrera got to the gym and bulked up a bit he might play more games, yes his passing myt be good but he gets brushed off far to easy.
we don't need to sign anynoe untill the summer. the players we all think would make us better would have cost a lot more now than the summer.
if the players perfomed how they should, the likes of jones smalling evans rvp adnan, we wouldn't be having all this negativity.
the fact is it is going to take more than 150 million and more than a season.
the aim is to qualify for the CL and if we win a cup its a bonus.
i don't understand why lvg gets all this stick and negativity. maybe people need to stop playing football manager and living in a dreamland its going to take time, deal with it
Beast, your first point about squad depth I totally disagree with. Losing players like Fletcher, Hernandez etc and other squad players will not harm the squad at all, if anything it gives young players more of a chance. Look how small the squad is at Real Madrid for example, they don't have 40 odd players to choose from. They have a tight knit bunch of quality players and then promising youngsters coming through the ranks.
Falcao is clearly beginning to settle in, he has 4 goals and 3 assists in 9 starts - for me that isn't a bad return considering it has taken him a while to get fit. Herrera I agree needs more game time, but his problem for me is van Persie who is played ahead of him which shoves Rooney into midfield.
You miss out that Rojo and Blind have actually been good signings and have settled in well. We also do have capable young players that are coming in like McNair, Blackett, Wilson, Januzaj etc.
There is also no reason why the summer will be more competitive. We will be in for the best players and every pundit out there has said that the summer will revolve around us, we will be the centre piece of the transfer world.
Yes, the team is disjointed and yes it hasn't fallen into place yet. But we are currently tied 3rd in touching distance of City.
I do sometimes agree with you Beast, but not this time, sorry.
Maybe my point is being missed with this post. My aim wasn't to rehash my normal negativity about all things LVG. It was to make a point about how problematic this Summer will be and the potential ramifications, if anything it was aimed to highlight how tough this Summer will be for LVG and how he should have mitigated that this window a little if possible.
I think people are judging my intention based on previous posts which is fair enough, I made my bed. But I am concerned about the sheer volume of deals needing to happen in one window, especially as our Summer transfers haven't been a huge success YET. If this happens again then we will be in a similar problem next year because we have even more games and even more player turnover to deal with.
I am all for putting in Youth players, but McNair, Blackett for example are nowhere near ready to play top level games and be reliable. Blind & Rojo are good squad players, they have done well relatively, but we paid over £30m for the two of them.
I wanted Fletcher, Anderson, Nani, Hernandez, Cleverly gone of course. But if we have to spend £15m to replace them each time it would be pretty damaging. We have had injury crisis after injury crisis for man years now, so I assume next year will be the same. If we have bare bones now, just think how bad it will be with Europe, League Cup etc.
03 Feb 2015 16:32:41
Haha what?! Herrera not settled? He plays well and is happy the manager just doesn't rate him! Shaw? Yet again he seems happy and has been carrying a constant ankle injury. ADM? Been played out of position. You really do struggle to grasp reality sometimes mate it's almost laughable.
You moan about how much money the manager has spent yet do you not think we'd be paying over the odds even more so during January?
Once again with players not grasping LvG's so called philosophy Herrera has not struggled to play to a more than reasonable standard, Januzaj hasn't been played in the position he's used to and at his age that's pretty important. He will not be moved on and you're deluded if you think he will be. Fellaini we know isn't really technically gifted enough to be of real use to us under any manager with the type of football we want to play and Mata as we've discussed before needs fast runners around him to best use his skills it's nothing to do with them not understanding the philosophy.
Like I think it was Danny who was saying LvG has clearly been told CL football next year is a must, so he's setting us up to be more defensive and pinch a goal here and there when we can. Hence Di Maria playing up top to latch onto longballs, sitting deep, trying very hard to keep the ball even if it means doing nothing with it except going backwards or sideways.
Next year if he is still here and we're in the CL, I bet we can expect to see different players, different formation, different style of play. let's just hope his plan works.
03 Feb 2015 16:35:23
Spb, similar upheaval and losing some of their best players, hasn't stopped Southampton from playing some tidy, attractive football. What's their excuse?
03 Feb 2015 17:02:08
Give more examples other than Southampton, of a team doing this in the premiership stevie? It's easy and seems to be the go to atm to mention Southampton when saying this team or person needs time but tbf there are many many many more examples if this being the case.
03 Feb 2015 17:05:15
Stevie,
Southampton are punching well above their weight and do not have the expectation that we have. They are now below us in the table but everybody says they are having an amazing season and us a poor one, look at the difference in reaction from Southampton fans to losing to Swansea at home than to ours on the first day of the season, it is not a realistic comparison.
Ozwald - You can't seriously expect me to clarify every point at length. "Not Settled" would mean not doing what they were paid to do, not a great success so far, I am not blaming them, I am simply saying we have seen hardly seen anything of Shaw, Herrera, Falcao or ADM compared to what we expected, for one reason or another.
For the avoidance of doubt I like all of them, especially Herrera - but they haven't worked as intended. Out of position, injuries, not liked, not good enough form, all play a part and obviously LVG's bizarre decisions are key. Why would that differ next year?
West Ham
03 Feb 2015 17:45:24
Southampton were the only team similar to us in terms of upheaval, which is why I used them as an example. I'm only comparing like with like. Yes they're below us, but can you honestly, hand on heart, without the red tinted glasses, that we've been better to watch than then this season?
Considering their starting point, and their relative lack of funds, I'd say they've handled their upheavel with much less difficulty than us. And if we're talking more pressure at Its, is that not why we brought in LVG, a man who's been at the very big clubs, and is that not why we spent 150million - to get top players who are used to pressure?
I know it's not Football Manager, but it's not rocket science either. Sometimes I think people try to overcomplicate things, to cover our deficiencies.
Southampton have shown what can be achieved with a young, forward-thinking coach, who doesn't try to pull the wool over people's eyes by going on about a philosophy, and how good he is. He just keeps it simple - passing and pressing with pace.
We have needed a clear out for a long time. We bought badly at times particularly towards the end of SAF' tenure. On here we debated that Nani Cleverley and co needed shifting, Anderson was too overweight, etc. Yet sit back and ask how long had they been here and granted new contracts when they were not good enough? Sentiment, too much sentiment mainly by SAF and his acceptance of lessening standards kept some beyond the term they should have done. Now the clear out has started and not before time.
Just one point everyone has missed. LvG brought in a young powerful lad from Ajax Fosu Mensah who could be one for the future to, also I saw we were looking at another 16 year old yesterday. Building a flow of players from a younger age is key to building the future. He may get criticism for tactics but what I am seeing is absolutely what needs to be done
Gds
United had the biggest spend in world football during the summer and have the highest wage bill in the EPL.
To try and compare uniteds expectations to southamptons is stupid.
If southampton finish top 4 it will be by far a bigger achievement than united finishing top 4
03 Feb 2015 22:41:00
Jred,
Think we agree, it is not a fair comparison.
Gds
That's why people think they are doing well they are playing top of there game and the manager is getting 100% of his squad
But United's squad is far superior and is under performing.
Hence one is having a good season one isn't .
The comparison is that after losing there best players and after as much upheaval as us. With a fraction of the money and nowhere near as talented a squad they are playing at 100% whereas United are at about 60%
04 Feb 2015 00:54:11
but did Southampton really have that much more of a depleted first team this season or is a little bit of a myth?
They lost Shaw, a 18yr old who's best years are ahead of of yet granted but replaced him with Bertrand, a cl winner and playing top of his game.
Lambert was replaced by pelle, and lallana was replaced with a guy that had the biggest assist rate in Holland last year I believe.
Also this whole koeman a young forward thinking manager stuff to, is he? That's news to me. I thought he had been around a while really only being successful to a degree in benfica? I could be wrong though.
04 Feb 2015 02:29:47
He's 51 Chris - quite young for a top level manager, and certainly in comparison to LVG.
I didn't say he had been successful, but it is obvious what his preferred style is, and it is progressive, even if fairly simple. He's forward-thinking enough to have tactically outwitted LVG twice this season already.
The player replacements sort of back this point up - he knew what sort of players were needed, and he blended them into the team without any fuss. They bought into him straight away by the looks of things.
Chris
Lambert was replaced by pelle and lallana was replaced in the same way nani was replaced with di maria and chica with falcao.
shaw may be 18 but he was there best player imo last year .
And the CL winner bertrand who actually only played the one game (in the final) was playing for aston villa last season and struggling to get in there team
04 Feb 2015 10:03:29
Ok jred??? not a bad game to play in is it? pelle and tadic imo are better than the 2 that left.
Stevie yes 52 is not old I agree but the way some speak of him is as if he's this amazing new manager when in fact he's had chances elsewhere and not done great. Poch is the better manager imo and long term will do more.