23 Jan 2015 07:38:49
Shappy
We all know Beast is over egging the situation and is at the extreme end of the negative view. You seem to be taking a completely opposite position.
You mention all the signings: I agree Hererra is excellent but he doesn't seem to be able to get in the team. ADM is a great player but LVG is obsessed with playing him up front when we would get far more impact playing him wide or through the centre. Shaw has had some stick from LVG and I'm yet to be convinced he rates him. Blind is multi functional and I like him but he's not going to change a game. I also don't think LVG wanted Falcao. Woodward has been obsessed with 'stellar' names and as a cheap gamble, I suspect LVG simply agreed.mmadd to this we have Rooney playing in midfield (while Hererra is on the bench) and it is reasonable for us to question his thinking.
As for the comparison with last year, at this stage we are no better off - our improved league position is down to others doing worse than last year.
I am not a neg head or suggesting we sack him but as each game comes and goes I wonder about his thinking. Apparently he thinks criticism of his formation is 'ridiculous'? If everyone is fit we need to play a back 4, play people in their best positions, and concentrate on hurting our opponents instead of worrying about them hurting us.
AJH,
Just to make sure i understood you well; You aren't praising LvG as there is nothing to praise nor are you calling for his head even though in your opinion, his performance points in that direction. You are just wondering why he is persisting with a seemingly failing "philosophy"?
I for one look forward to Shappy's posts because they give logical hope. I am sure that not 1 fan can say they are 100% happy with our performance, but many of us are happier this season than we were last season.
Well said AJH. For most of us it isn't a van Gaal out campaign, and we want to give him time to implement his ideas. But when his ideas are so clearly at odds with the squad we have and, most importantly, just aren't working it's hard not to question the direction he is taking us. The fact that his response to criticism is - you stupid, me van Gaal, me always right - just adds to peoples' concerns. Ego is fine once it is tempered by pragmatism. Pragmatism means making the best out of what you have. Van Gaal simply isn't doing this.
23 Jan 2015 08:23:49
AJH our improved league position is down to DDG.
It does make you consider (in hindsight of course) if Arsenal, Liverpool and Everton were all firing this year and if Moyes's performances matched LVGs at this time last season would he have even made it to the end of the campaign?
23 Jan 2015 09:09:28
MB,
Why, where was DDG last season?
GDS2 - DDG roughly this time last season was letting in a Phil Bardsley attempt to give Sunderland the chance of knocking us out of the League Cup!
All who are bothered - The difference this season is our main opposition for CL have under performed (so far but they are coming fast) and DDG has over performed. LVG should be thankful for this, because we have not improved collectively, in fact I think we lack even more identity now which seems ridiculous.
Many people were calling for Moyes's head now or were close to it, the only difference with LVG is his CV (which under closer inspection is not as good as people think it is) and our fans are more desperate. We also don't want to turn into a club that sacks managers every season, however that shouldn't stop you from doing what is right. LVG is benefiting from our desperation and worry about being the next Chelsea/Madrid manager wise.
Book your pilot lessons up soon is my advice, companies will start increasing the prices if performances and decision making continues down this road - I just hope it isn't too late!
If I gave a a puzzle with half the pieces missing could you make it look like it does on the front of the box?
I may have gone a bit Cantona on you there but I think it is a good analogy of our situation.
We have key elements of the team LvG wants to build missing, so the current incarnation is nothing like what the finished product will look like.
At the moment we are trying to live in our new house before the builders have finished and then complaining that there is no roof or windows and we are getting cold and rained on.
Does that mean that once the builders have finished it will be a rubbish house? We don't know, but we have to wait until they've finish before we can judge.
I mentioned the signings as one of Beasts problems seemed to be that we have signed a load of rubbish players or players that another manager wouldn't be able to use.
That is a ridiculous statement, Shaw, Herrera, Di Maria are great players, Rojo and Blind are great squad players with potential to be maybe more. And Flacao is here on a short term deal and if he doesn't fit another managers plans? Well he won't be here by that time.
You say we are no better off than this time last year, you aren't looking at the bigger picture.
Does the team look more confident? Is the squad happier and more settled? Have we signed better players and moved on players who are not good enough?
If you were a manager would you rather take over this group of players or the group LvG took over?
And finally at this stage last season it didn't look like we had a chance of 4th place, yet now we have more than a chance. You can point to other teams not being as good as they were last season such as Everton and Liverpool, but Spurs and Arsenal are about the same as last year. Both had a poor spells during the season. But like wise Chelsea are stronger this year, City are just as strong. Southampton and West Ham are playing much better and even Newcastle had a good run.
This season the difference is the gap between the bottom and middle half teams has closed, at this point last season there were 5 teams drifting away at the bottom of the league this season no team up to 10th is really safe yet. That has resulted in the teams in the middle third of the league dropping unexpected points.
So I don't buy this the league is weaker this year, in fact with the more compressed points between the teams I think this season the league is stronger than last year.
I'm not saying LvG is the right man for the job, just that we need to give him the time to finish his project before we decide if its good enough. We have had progress under him, and I along with many of us I suspect feel much more confident than we did last season, that shows we have made progress.
23 Jan 2015 10:07:46
LVG has played Di Maria as a second striker twice and now he is obsessed with it apparently?!?!
23 Jan 2015 10:13:13
GDS mate DDG has been in much better form this season and we would've conceded much more had he not been in such kind of a form.
Shappy
What a load of twaddle again.
This group of players are under performing you can continue to make all the excuses you want but .
Never mind we need to buy x y and z we actual have after spending close to 250 mill in18 month and the higest wage bill in tje league a very good squad .
You must think koeman is a god if you lvg is doing well
If you were a manager would you rather take over this group of players or the group LvG took over?
Shappy
Well after buying blind, rojo, di maria, falcao etc i think the answear is yes.
It also shows what a better squad lvg has compared to last season
And maybe lvG and his staff have managed to bring the best out of DdG! let's not overlook that one. DdG didn't wake up one morning being incredible.
Mbd
He has got better and better every season.
The lad has worked hard on his game so credit where its due
See this is the big problem, it isn't a puzzle, it's a job. And the aim of the job is to finish with as much points at the end of the current season as possible. Yes there has to be an element of long term planning, but that must be secondary to the immediate goal of achieving the most with what you have got.
If we contrast Fergie in his pomp with van Gaal you see what I mean. Fergie starts with the clear goal of winning. So he starts with the question what can I do to give my current team the best chance of winning? He is also thinking about what he can do to give the club a better chance of winning in the future, but his primary concern is winning right now because he knows that managers are, rightly, judged on results. In other words, Fergie saw football as a simple game: do what you can to win with the team you currently have.
Van Gaal starts from an ideal: if I had everything I wanted how would my team play in an ideal world? He is, admittedly, willing to sacrifice the short term goal of winning in pursuit of his ideal vision. This means he starts with a philosophy and puts winning on hold in an attempt to better achieve this philosophy. In other words, he doesn't try to make the best with what he currently has because he sees this as counterproductive to his long term ideal. The problem with this long term approach is that it begins from the unflinching belief that van Gaal is right and his ideal can be achieved. In turn, this requires blind support of van Gaal's vision, from supporters and the board. For van Gaal football is complicated: you don't start with what you have but where you want to eventually end up, so you need a clear understanding of what your philosophy is and how it can be achieved over the course of a number of years. It, therefore, demands that the manager predict the future: that he knows how to implement his philosophy, the players who need to come in, and that it will ultimately work.
For me van Gaal's approach is driven by unchecked ego. It basically asks a club to fully trust in his methods, buy in players that fit his approach, and ignore the immediate performances and results simply because van Gaal says that it will all work out for the best. Complete madness if you ask me.
Danny I honestly believe you have just summed up the mentality of both modern day managers and boardroom directors. Instead of living for today it's all about planning for tomorrow.
23 Jan 2015 11:12:38
Shappy, I don't think anyone has a problem with the players that were bought. It's how they're being utilised. Or not, as the case may be.
I think for once Shappy I do not agree with you.
We have made some advancements this year but I do NOT think that's down to LVG. You mentioned the squad seeming happier and more settled, and better players being signed.
In relation to the squad seeming more confident its down to time and the players realizing they have quality and a good team. To put that down to LVG is absurd when all he seems to do is come out and be super critical of players e.g. Shaw and Falcao. If anything he is detrimental to their confidence of the players.
Better players being signed is down to Mr Woodward. Players like Shaw and Herrera were signed very early in LVG's reign and I am sure they were "unofficial" United players before he took over. We wanted a big name which is why Falcao was added, LVG clearly doesn't rate him so why agree to him being here? Clearly not an LVG signing. I would say his signings were Blind and Di Maria, Blind his utility player and Di Maria effectively occupying the same role Robben occupied in the Dutch national. Rojo was signed after the world cup and we clearly needed defenders. LVG seems undecided on him still as if he really wanted him he would be in the 1st team every match day. So to say the quality players we brought in were all down to him is again over doing it.
The squad seeming happier is again down to other factors. We are in a better position this year. There are more Spanish speaking players and thus some players in the squad would naturally feel more comfortable.
Obviously I am not completely discrediting him, I am sure he has had some influence in these things.
In my opinion he more problems to the table more than solutions. His ego and stubbornness have already hampered us some what this season and to ignore that fact would be very foolish.
Take Stoke and Tony Pulis for example. He fell out with the squad as he wanted them to play a certain way which the squad and players were unhappy with. He was sacked because he lost the dressing room and came to words with some of the players.
LVG's man management is clearly lacking. He doesn't seem to be interested in making points to the players during the match, which can change a game. His training methods clearly generate more injuries than is necessary and from what I understand he does not create individual training programs for individual players, in this day and age, it is absurd. Di Maria should not be on the same program as Fellaini
I do agree with you in saying it is a long project and we can't judge him on it just yet, but as fans we can not speculate as to weather his project WILL be a success. We can only judge on what we have seen as of yet.
We have the players to play attractive, attacking football. We have the players to succeed. Why do we need a be a new project or have a new philosophy. Was the Manchester united philosophy of attacking football not working?
Why not make a few additions and play to our strengths. I know that view is very simplistic, may be even childish to some.
As i have said previously we need to play to OUR strengths and put opposition to the sword. Not focus on their strengths and how to avoid defeat.
In my opinion he is not the man for the job and I do foresee a change in the summer in terms of management. But I will stand by him and support him in his management and endeavors with the team for as long as he is the manager of the club I love.
Perfect again Danny.
Football is now a business more than a sport, but for fans football is a sport only! LVG could be Warren Buffet or he could be Bernie Madoff, I know who I think he will be come the end, but only because what I am seeing at the moment is horrible and frankly I care more about football than I do about the bank balance of Shareholders.