22 Jan 2015 14:41:36
"I don't think the whole philosophy of the club has changed in the way we're playing. This is what the manager wants and I agree with it.
"It's important to keep the ball and make the opponent more tired. It's not always the case to finish the game in the first-half. But you can do it in the second-half, when the spaces become bigger when you have kept the ball for a long time.
"You have to wait for the right moment. It is all about waiting for the right moment. Sometimes the space is there but other times you have to keep the ball and wait for an opening" Blind
so that is from danny blind today, on uniteds current performance and formation.
Is that why we are playin 3, 5, 2 to keep the ball and tire the other team out
Is the slow build up and lack of chances due to us waiting for the right moment ?
Daley and not Danny but that's neither here nor there.
LvG has always been about possession based football, and that's not always the most scintillating to watch. Depending on what you do with the ball possession can be very defensive.
I think one of the issues we have at the moment with that slow patient build up style is we have no one to force the issue. What happens when the other team don't want to score they are happy with a 0-0 draw, they won't chase the ball down and they won't tire and they won't come out looking for the ball and thus no space will open up.
It worked wonderfully at Barca as they had a little lad called Messi who could just destroy a team at any moment and open up a team who even sat deep and in numbers.
We don't have such a player, we need to address this at some point, this style will work, but we need to tactical flexibility and have a couple of players who will stretch teams and tire them while we have possession.
The philosophy is a good one, but it takes time and we need to perfect the squad to bring the vision into a reality.
"I don't think the whole philosophy of the club has changed in the way we're playing".
I'm sorry; but Blind knows as little about the philosophy of our great club as LVG. He's only at the club because of his relationship with the manager and is obviously going to support him and his ineptitude publicly. We would never have even considered a player as average as Blind had LVG not been manager and as such I care very little for anything he has to say.
Shappy
What a load of balls.
You don't need messi to play possession football.
We do have di maria but the philosophy seems to be play it long to him.
Every top coach plays a form of possession football how ever they also employ the correct tactics to make it work.
Don't know if it's tiring teams out or boring them into submission.
Any current Utd player would be too scared to go against the LVG line publicly - not worth the paper anything is written on. The problem is that its so long since we played fluid attacking football that these newcomers think boring is our philosophy, they are just taking it to new heights!
22 Jan 2015 16:17:26
I think Shappy has a point. In my eyes, possession based football is dependant of three critical factors:
1. All Players must have a good level of intelligence, and understand each others strengths and weaknesses.
2. The entire team must be comfortable on the ball. This is particularly critical in that a team could be keeping possession of the ball in a tight situation, only for a single player (who isn't particularly comfortable) to then pump it 40-50 yards over the top.
3. The team needs at least one individual who can turn with the ball and can successfully beat a man. This is critical in the final 3rd as it then creates the necessary space for other players to exploit, and great scoring opportunities.
We have item 3 (in Angel Di Maria) but unfortunately struggle with items 1 and 2.
This is the problem with the possession argument. First, every side attempts to hold possession to some degree, the important thing is what you do with it. So, for instance, when we played Arsenal away this year they had most of the possession, but couldn't do anything with it. With our limited possession we hit them on the break and beat them. So it is never as simple as hold possession and you'll win.
The second problem is that our use of possession with 5 at the back is generally negative and doesn't open the opposition defences. With Barca you had a possession system, but it was about holding possession in the opponents half: quick short passing until a gap was exposed and then exploiting it. Our possession is primarily close to the halfway line, so the main attacking opportunities are long balls over the top. Basically, we aren't anywhere near the opposition net, so we are not stretching their defence in any way.
Finally, the argument seems to be that philosophy is not a problem but our squad is, and until we bring in the 'perfect' players to suit the philosophy we won't be able to judge it properly. This is, of course, nonsense. It requires the board to pump hundreds of millions into a floundering system on the sole basis that van Gaal says it will be a success. The philosophy needs to show some signs that it can work if the board or us supporters are to believe van Gaal's claims. Despite having relative success in Spain, Germany and Holland with variants of this philosophy, these leagues have different demands to the EPL. The fact of the matter is that we have seen very little signs of the philosophy getting better and, statistically, we have performed better when the philosophy has been interpreted differently.
In simple terms, van Gaal has to start demonstrating some level of improvement if he wants people to buy into his philosophy. So far he hasn't and he seems to arrogantly think that people should accept his belief that it will succeed because he is van Gaal and he is the best. It's telling that Shappy's defence has been to argue that van Gaal's critics don't understand what he's trying to do. In other words, it's just too complicated for us to get. The irony is that the most successful managers in the EPL have always talked about keeping tactics simple, and not over complicating things. Because, ultimately, football isn't a complicated game, and many many people can see the flaws in our system. In turn, managers like Koeman will start exploiting these flaws because currently its our predictability that is our biggest weakness.
Jred, I'm not saying you need Messi to play possession football, but you need creative players in the final third who can break the line.
I choose Messi and Barca as the example as they are the best example of possession football. Also Messi has the footballing intelligence and the quick turn of pace to break a defensive line. You need one or the other but both make it so much easier.
If you watched Barca under Pep the moment Messi wasn't on the pitch they struggled to break teams down. That was because they lost the player who did exactly that. Now we don't really have a player who'd play as striker and can do that role. Wilson maybe in time but nowhere near yet.
22 Jan 2015 16:42:07
Danny, it's ridiculous how many times I've found myself agreeing with you lately.
Shappy
Barcelon struggled with out messi as they where that condition to just give it to messi and he will sort it .
United have di maria, rooney, mata all creative players .
But our tactics are shocking .
barcelonas tactics was a million miles away from lvg .
you can't just say its possession football.
Danny makes some good points .
To me it just sounds like you are trying to come up with excuses for lvg to be honest .
And imo they are very thin
22 Jan 2015 17:15:26
Danny, I agree with you.
Barca played possession football in the opposition half, not in their own half.
Danny speaks perfect sense.
We do have very creative players but they are either not given the ball quickly, or there is a lack of movement/options around them. This all comes down to not having technically sound players at the back, or enough energy in midfield. Also Rooney is not comfortable finding space in midfield, which is hurting us far more than a lot of people realise. Finding space upfront is completely different to finding it in midfield.
Our system is being built around none of our players strengths, even our best players are either not suitable or not played in their best positions. He has spent £150m, he will need another £300m to get it how he wants it and frankly I still don't think it will work. Even if it does he will be gone shortly after, so who's to say the next guy wants the same, £450m down the line. He will also be buying experienced players as he needs to be sure they know the system, age/resale value?MASSIVE GAMBLE.
Plus its boring to watch even if it does eventually work, which it won't as all coaches have studied LVG's methods and know how to counter it!
Barca played possession football int he opponents half because they had the players to do so.
Di Maria might be able to force opposition players further back with his pace but no defence will worry about Mata or Rooney running in behind thus they will push up and force us back, which is what is happening so we have the ball but deeper on the pitch then we would like.
Until we have the players to run beyond the defence and force the opposition back making space for us in their half of the pitch we will continue to have that problem.
Snappy
That's rubbish.
Mata and co are more than capable of playing possession football.
Teams aren't forcing us back we are choosing to play deep
Rooney and mata are playing as cm on the half way line .
It's not the personnel it's the tactics.
United and barcelonas tactics under pep where miles apart I can't believe your trying to compare them
Guys we are hundred years away from Barca and this managers philosophy has nothing to do with Barca.
City has high levels of possession stats so do Arsenal but their possession is in the opposition half and don't pass it around their back four or back 3 in our case like square pegs. We are the 40 yard long ball specialist at the moment and even when we get down the wings we hardly have anyone in the box and end up pulling it back and recycling and pass it backwards.
We can all try and be football analyst but this system and philosophy will show itself for what it is over the next few weeks. We were sitting comfortably n 3rd place with 3 point gap 4 or 5 weeks ago and now we are in 4th with a 1 point lead.
Let us see if this guy is for real and i know it sounds unbelievable to say it but gets us a top 4. Can't believe we have scooped that low LOL.
Stebiw, ditto re Danny.
Shappy, we have the players, LVG is either not playing them or playing them in the wrong position. He may turn out to ne the saviour but right now he is spouting his philosophy mantra time and again but not showing it on the pitch
Stebiw?? Lol, Stevie
22 Jan 2015 20:41:08
I've been called worse, mate. That's how I introduce myself to people after a few beers :)
That's that then, let's sack him!!
We don't need to sack him or fly a plane over OT.
but its ok to discuss his tactics etc
22 Jan 2015 23:06:49
Jred,
I would agree with that. I can't believe this.