08 Oct 2019 07:09:37
I know we all have our own views and opinions on what makes 'right' in the way we choose to support our team. But it's a shame that there is so much bickering going on between our own fans. There will always be 'plastic' fans and ' fair weather sailors', the youngsters who change allegiances depending on who is the top team at any one time.

But what we are seeing now is different. Now we are seeing many older more seasoned, long time supporters of United getting fed up with what they see and how the club is being run. It's a shame when you see the likes of Ken and AJH (I hope you two don't mind me mentioning names) going at each other over such matters.

But just think back to why we all support United. For most of us, especially us who have been supporting since before the 'glory years' and the Fergie era, we chose to support United for more important reasons. Family tradition, where we live or were brought up or just because we chose United above all others. But most importantly, because United had a history, a tradition and it stood for something. Even when we weren't winning, Manchester United meant something.

I have to ask, what doesn't mean now? American owners who care not one jot about the 'club'. A management structure that is completely clueless and a squad of players who do not understand what it means to be a United player.

We can talk about modern footballers being mercenaries and only here for the money. But does Aguero 'get' being a City player? Or Salah a Liverpool player. Of course they do, because they play for teams that are well run, still have a passion for the football side of things, and most importantly these clubs are still in touch with the fans.

Everything that United are not at the moment. And that is just making the divide between club and fans even bigger. We are a shambles both on and off the pitch - and the sad thing is that even if Ole does go - it is not going to solve the problem. It has been said many times before, but there are far greater problems at United than just the manager(s) .

The whole things needs stripping down and overhauling. The club's needs to get back in touch with those people who matter the most - the fans. Without them the club is nothing, and that's why I really worry about where this club is going. The problem is not 'toxic' fans. They are just a symptom of what's happening. The club is the problem, and it needs sorting very quickly.

When the fans are arguing and bickering it is because things are not right with the club they support. Of course, there will always be different views and different opinions, but what is happening now is more than that. When you have long time supporters falling out of love with the club you really have to ask why.

And in my humble opinion, the answer lies with the club itself - It's a shambles.

1.) 08 Oct 2019
08 Oct 2019 08:47:50
Spot on Betty, one of the best posts I've seen in the last couple of weeks.

We need to remember that although we have different views and even different understandings of what it is to support the club. We need to remember that we are all on the same side. We all just want to see the club doing well.

For me the saddest thing this season is seeing the name calling of a manager who is a club legend and gave us arguably our greatest moment of the last 50 years.

Yes, I get it. Some people don't rate him as a manager, and yes he does look out of his depth. But to call him derogatory names is a little crass at best. Unless of course you believe he isn't trying his best or that he doesn't want the best for the club.

He is a former player doing everything he can to help drag the club he loves out of the position we find ourselves in. Can he do it? Sadly it doesn't look like it. But he is doing what he can for all the right reasons.

I get the anger, the frustration and even the despair. But turn that towards the people who have got the club into this position, rather than at a club legend who is doing everything he can to try and get us out of it.

2.) 08 Oct 2019
08 Oct 2019 09:44:33
Manchester United should represent the elite, we should be a beacon of excellence and sporting achievement. We should have the best stadium, training facilities, academy, coaches, physiotherapist's, sport scientists etc. Everything should be centred around allowing the team to achieve the very best results and performances. The emphasis should be on the team and the Manchester United brand should represent the ideology of sporting achievement and excellence.

I think we all know it's not just the team in decay but everything around the team has also been allowed to deteriorate and suffered from years of neglect and underinvestment.

Players often mirror the values and standards of the Club. If they are put into an elite environment where everything is in place to allow them to flourish and achieve performance levels increase. I've often spoke of my disgust that finishing 4th is now somehow viewed as success and instead of looking how many points off the top we are, we now all look how far away we are from 4th. If you never reach for the stars you'll never get there and we now have a culture around the Club that finishing 4th is success and that's part of the problem.

At Utd the stadium needs modernising and capacity increasing, the training facilities need improving the players must understand they are at a centre of excellence and achievement. They must have that arrogance, confidence, determination and belief to be the very best. Who is driving this vision or setting this standard?

When I look at Manchester United I don't see any of that. We are a Club in decline lacking the vision or appetite to succeed. We are a Club motivated by cash and judged solely by monetary value and not sporting success. We are a Club prepared to exchange mediocrity for cash where success is judged merely by making up the numbers if it means the coffers swell and more sponsorship opportunities can be created. Manchester United Football Club is dead but the brand lives on.

3.) 08 Oct 2019
08 Oct 2019 09:58:57
DlIB best post i seen in a month.

4.) 08 Oct 2019
08 Oct 2019 09:59:26
But DLIB don't you know the Glazers are fantastic owners and it doesn't matter that we have a huge debt from them. It doesn't matter that the stadium is crumbling and the training centre is out of date. It doesn't matter the academy is underinvested and the scouting system is out of date. It doesn't matter that the squad is full of mediocrity. None of it matters because the Glazers are cool, fantastic people. They've only ever been good for the club.

5.) 08 Oct 2019
08 Oct 2019 10:48:05
I think this thread showns, in truth, that we are all singing from the same hymn sheet really.

I don't want to make this a thread about the owners, but as long as the fans keep spending their cash on following the team I really don't see much changing. As long as the money keeps rolling in they will be happy.

People are getting called 'spoiled' and 'not true fans' for their perceived lack of loyalty towards the club during these bad times - but maybe, just maybe fans turning their back on the club (in terms of spending their money) is the only way that the club will sit up and take notice.

While I don't go to many games and spend lots of money on 'supporting' the club due to where I live, I can totally understand why people would stop going. In terms of the football, what enjoyment do we actually get watching games these days? Apart from seeing some of the youngsters getting game time, there is VERY little else to be pleased or entertained by.

The standard is appalling, but worst of all is the lack of passion and desire being shown on the pitch.
I also have to say, I do not see this problem with the manager. He may be out of his depth. He is not the right man to sort it all out. But he does care desperately for the club.

6.) 08 Oct 2019
08 Oct 2019 11:10:50
Betty and DLIB. Bang on the nail super posts.
Mort, too funny man. Love it.

7.) 08 Oct 2019
08 Oct 2019 12:01:12
We're all supposed to be adults on here. Don't see the point in falling out with people you've never met, or are ever likely to meet. Especially over a game of football. I've followed Utd for 40 years, but as you get older, you realise there are much, much more things in life to be worrying about, than having childish spats with complete strangers, over who's best at kicking a ball around a field.

8.) 08 Oct 2019
08 Oct 2019 12:33:41
I see at the moment, Leeds United and their fall from grace.

While that is a false equivalency, and I realise the situation is different, any giant can fall.

9.) 08 Oct 2019
08 Oct 2019 12:53:48
Well said Noucamp.
Sometimes we just let it loose because of frustration.

10.) 08 Oct 2019
08 Oct 2019 13:37:21
Noucamp well said.

11.) 08 Oct 2019
08 Oct 2019 13:59:01
We are a club with a huge history, sometimes whilst embracing and reliving that history it can actually hold you back whilst other clubs move forward much quicker.
It took Liverpool (another club with history) years and several iterations to get to the point they are now and that's before you consider larger demises of other clubs.
We have all said before, root and branch changes needed from DOF, to scouting to training facilities. This alongside a strong philosophy for the club that drives the manager decisions.
If at some point OGS is relieved it does not mean the path we are on with younger players is wrong. Just choose a manager with that philosophy.
Let's hope the powers that be see what we all do.