06 Dec 2018 11:26:57
Our problems essentially stem from central defence. We have experienced defenders hacking away at the ball in our box in a blind panic and what we need is solid composed cultured defenders.


1.) 06 Dec 2018
06 Dec 2018 11:41:25
Yet have been told repeatedly on here we’ve a good defence and stats back it up, DDG backed it up is the truth, even he is starting to make errors now, hard to be a one man brick wall.


2.) 06 Dec 2018
06 Dec 2018 15:05:08
The thing is Dave has saved us on so many occasions that he can get away with the odd error. I thought he made two great saves, especially the second one from aubameyang, he made it look so easy.
Like WRD says, it’s hard being a one man defence.


3.) 06 Dec 2018
06 Dec 2018 15:23:32
Defence is an interesting issue. I don't think our defenders are as bad as they have played this season. A combination of low confidence and tactics that play to their deficiencies rather than their strengths makes them look worse than they are.

Also in my opinion there just isn't that many great central defenders around at the moment. When Ramos has to be one of the top contenders for best centre back in the world you know there isn't much competition.

Personally I think both of Liverpool's and City's defences are decidedly average, with only Laporte as the potential world class centre back amoungst them.

Chelsea often line up with David Luiz in their defence. Arsenal's defence doesn't have a world class player at either CB or full back.

Only Tottenham have a genuine world class CB in Alderweireld. Vertonghen is close as well but not quite there for me.

Does Real Madrid or Barcelona have a genuine world class CB? Maybe by current standards but none that would come close to making it into the 100 greatest CB's of all time.

Do Bayern Munich have one? Both Hummels and Boetang lack in certain areas, they have some good younger players, but none who could be considered world class.

All the best CB's at the moment are spoken about with the term "potential" often thrown in. We have many "potential" world class CB's playing around the world but none actually world class at the moment.

Who is there who could hold up against the likes of Rio Ferdinand, Vidic, Terry, Carvalho, Hierro, Puyol, Cannavaro, Thuram, Maldini ect?

So when considering that lack of genuine world class CB's out there playing for our rivals, can we really say our defenders are that far behind or that it's that simple to recruit better options?

Football has moved on, with teams defending more as a team and less reliant on individuals there seems to be a lack of those truly great individual players. Which way round that happened I can say. Whether we lack great defenders because the way teams play, or whether the way teams play is because of the lack of great defenders?

Either way their aren't an abundance of options for us to purchase to improve, and even less who might be attainable.

If we are to improve our defensive record we might have to adapt how we play like so many other teams have around the world.


4.) 06 Dec 2018
06 Dec 2018 16:15:44
Liverpool have Van Dijk, City have Laporte, Toby at Tottenham and Luiz at Chelsea they are all better then any of our cbs.

Godin, koulibaly, skrinar, jimenez these are all top cbs.

There are some other young players who are already on the same level as our cbs or have more potential.

Our cbs ave been rubbish fr years. You are getting too confused with the way other teams play. Defenders are meant to defend first and if you can't do that then you shouldn't be a defender. By changing your style of play to cover your crap defender doesn't hide away the fact our cbs are crap and have been fr years.


5.) 06 Dec 2018
06 Dec 2018 17:21:17
Shappy you must be a nightmare to bump into in the street when your in a rush.


6.) 06 Dec 2018
06 Dec 2018 18:10:57
Singh, I don't rate van Dijk any higher than Bailly.

Godin has been world class but is on the decline now. Koulibaly looks a great player, yet has only shown this sort of form over the last few years. Until he was 24 he was never rated that highly. The other lads qualify for our under 23 side. So come under the bracket of "potential" as they have yet to peak.

Thats the thing there are loads with potential, yet none at their peak who could be considered world class. Or very few at least.


7.) 06 Dec 2018
06 Dec 2018 18:29:29
Some may miss Shappy’s rapier point. Just to make sure you don’t. It isn’t the paucity of our centre backs that is the problem but it is because we have not adapted the way we play like “so many other teams”. Basically it is the managers fault. It’s like one of those diagrams that keep finding the way back to the same point.

Our centre halves are not good enough, period. There is no leader, no “on the header” centre half, no one dominating the defence and when that doesn't come from the goal keeper it develops weaknesses. Yes defend from the front but it’s no good playing while looking over your shoulder behind you. We have no commander to look up to, no organiser, no one to step out with the ball and until we get that commander our defence will remain wobbly regardless of tactics. Anyone who played knew a commanding centre half was what a team was built on.

If you want a discussion then maybe DDG’s lack of command is not helping the centre halves. The Great Dane is still the best I have ever seen, powerful and commanded his defenders. DDG doesn’t but is more agile. I have played in defence in front of both types and felt more comfortable with a Schmeichel type than a DDG. Maybe just psychological but you knew where your keeper was with a commanding one, it kept communication lines tighter. It all combines to the defensive frailty of where we are.


8.) 06 Dec 2018
06 Dec 2018 19:30:40
Redman, I think our young defenders don't stand a chance in this team under this manager. How can they grow in stature, confidence and ability when they are in a struggling side with no leaders and their confidence is undermined?

I think Dalot, Bailly, Lindelof and Shaw could develop into a pretty decent back four but they need better midfielders who can keep the ball and take the pressure off them along with tactics which mean we defend from the front. At the moment we invite pressure on and give the ball away all over the pitch so these lads have no chance.


9.) 06 Dec 2018
06 Dec 2018 20:39:32
Mancman

The more the criticism of our manager/ s, the more difficult our situation, the less likely the manager will take a chance on youngsters, sadly that is reality. Calls for a managers head means he has to survive and that will likely mean more experienced players. That would be the same under any manager. SAF had given himself breathing room, still there was extensive criticism when he bloodied the kids in 95 and more when we lost the first game.

Which young defenders? Looks generally like they haven’t made that step up to the very top level. If they were good enough they would force their way in. Dalot could be decent and he has been given a chance but he has to show he has it, others have to step up. We have some good young players, Garner, Chong, Greenwood, Puigmal, but they have to make the step. They have a better chance with us than City. That said I wish we could get our hands on young Foden.

You are right on midfield, very poor right now.


10.) 06 Dec 2018
06 Dec 2018 22:17:09
Of course it's Jose's fault. Or do you consider it good management to invite teams onto our universily agreed terrible defence by sitting so deep and not pressing teams higher up the pitch or at all really?

My point is there are no great defenders currently playing, certificate none available to us, so I'm not sure buying more will hugely improve our defending.

Your point about commanders/ leaders I find interesting. I agree we don't have players in the mould of Robson, Bruce, Keane. Hardened battlers, barking orders and putting their bodies in the line.

All those type of players are playing at City, Silva, Sterling, Stones ect. Oh wait, City don't have anyone in that mould and yet they are running away with the league again.

In the 90's and early 00's there were tons of players with that attitude and grit, not just at our club but at many clubs up and down the country, even in other countries. Gattuso comes to mind.

There are none of these type players around anymore or at least very very few as compared to years ago.

It's almost like the world has changed and football has moved on and adapted.

It's a very British mentality in times of crisis to look back and try and replicate the past. Never has progress been made by following a 20 year old outdated rethoric.

Here we are, trying to come to terms with our current reality and all we are doing is trying to move back in time. That is exactly what Liverpool did in the early 90's and look how that ended up for them. If we are to learn from their mistakes and therefore avoid their fate we need to do things differently.

It appears I have several people who disagree with me, I don't know if they disagree just because it's me or because they disagree with my post. Not that I mind, disagreement is the spice of life after all. Lol. Serious point though.

If you disagree with my point I would love someone to come up with 5-10 genuine world class CB's in their prime (between the ages of 26-31).

If your really on it do the same with Roy Keane/ Bryan Robson styled leaders. 5-10 would be great. Cheers.


11.) 06 Dec 2018
06 Dec 2018 23:02:46
Just because you haven't heard of Koulibaly before he was 24, does not mean that he was not highly rated. He may not have played for the biggest clubs in Europe, but he was regarded as one of the best young french defenders for years. I guess moving to belgium for a couple years made him "dissapear" a bit. he has been rock solid since he moved to Italy, last couple of seasons he has been amongst the best cb in the world. I know everyone has different opinion, but saying that he wasnt highly rated before he was 24 is just not true.


12.) 07 Dec 2018
07 Dec 2018 10:01:05
Stoupid, I hadn't heard of him before his move to Napoli. I might not be a scout, but there are very few highly rated youngsters I hadn't heard of before they where 22 in the last 10-15 years. A lot of those youngster fail to live up to the expectations placed on their shoulders.

The very fact that he made the backwards step of moving to Belgium from France suggests he wasn't rated that highly, or at least not living up to an expectation that he could turn out world class. Otherwise he would have been moving to a better more competitive league.

His first season at Napoli wasn't great, he was under Rafa Benitez and he was in and out of the team. Good physically, yet lacked culture and understanding of the finer points of the game. It wasn't until Sarri took over at Napoli that Koulibaly's career began to take an upward trajectory. At the start of his second season at Napoli there was at least 20 better defenders in the league and at least 10 players his age or younger who were more highly rated. He has done a phenomenal job to get to the stage he is at now, hard work, dedication and a will to learn.

Besides, my point wasn't about potential so much but about realising it, Koulibaly has only reach these heights over the last 3 years, and never shown any thing close to world class form before that.


13.) 07 Dec 2018
07 Dec 2018 10:35:51
If we be honest and look at some of the goals we have conceded they have been ridiculous individual errors. From giving the ball away in midfield, but we do miss a leader. I think back to the Chelsea game, if Nemanja Vidic is in there we hang on imo. There are still some good centre halves out there. Van Djik looks a class act, thought it when he was at Celtic. Toby is a top centre half too. Personally I would love Koulibaly, but I think toby is the man we need due to his experience and he seems quite calm. He would be great in the middle of a back 3 with bailly and lindelof.